Toyota Prius

We looked at it quite seriously when making our most recent car purchaces and came to the conclusion that hi-tech modern diesels had far better green and cost credentials than Hybrids. Indeed as it is very rare for us to be driving around in the centre of a city (haven't people heard of feet) we could see no benefit to a Hybrid whatsoever. We also looked at the initial energy cost of manufacturing and the end of life costs, and the figures that we came up with for hybrids were worse than most 2l petrols. Basically the ony good reason for buying a hybrid is if you regularly drive into London and want to dodge the congestion charge!

Current thinking after a chat with Mrs Sloop is that we keep our trusty Volvo until it requires some prohibitively expensive repairs and then....................

we will revert to that quaintest of ideas from a bygone age - the one car family. We really need about 1.3 cars so it will be interesting to see if we can manage without the 0.3 car.


Out of a matter of interest what is the differential between diesel and petrol in the UK and Europe. Until recently in Ireland diesel was cheaper than petrol but latest prices are circa €1.28 petrol and €1.37 diesel per litre.



SJB

quote:

I will in the near future go and have a test drive of one to better inform my self on this matter.

regards David

David

I may have got this wrong but I believe the batteries are charged when the car is being driven. Ther are various points during the driving cycle, (braking, coasting) where the engine power charges the battery instead of driving the wheels.

Modern diesel engines employ some innovative technology to produce powerful cars that have little CO2 pollution compared to equivalent petrol engines. Diesel Particulate filters also remove the soot from the exhaust greatly improving the diesel engine emissions.

Tony

I understand that some people have modded the Prius so that it can be charged from the mains so that the car can be driven more on electric power. This saves the driver having to use the petrol engine.

Then why not just buy an electric car in the first place? There are a few on the market, you do have to look for them though! If SJB only needs 0.3 of a car a G-Wiz would seem the logical choice! Diesel is about £1.22 at the minute - provided you go to the supermarkets.

G-Wiz + Road Traffic Accident =

Lol, one of many reasons it is only point three of a car! There really is little need to go beyond the fact that you can't have the windscreen wipers and headlights on at the same time! That pretty much sums up the vehicle! Please accept my appologies, there should have been a grinning smiley as well as an exclaimation mark after my G-Wiz comment, I sometimes forget people don't automatically assume sarcasm, except from Adam!

quote:

Current thinking after a chat with Mrs Sloop is that we keep our trusty Volvo until it requires some prohibitively expensive repairs and then....................

we will revert to that quaintest of ideas from a bygone age - the one car family. We really need about 1.3 cars so it will be interesting to see if we can manage without the 0.3 car.

Dear SJB,

I was not my place to suggest that, but it is what I would have done!

George

Guess what car is the most satisfying to own = please click to find out

S.I.G

Rotf

Refer to privious discussion of "Hybrid Owner Smugness Syndrome"!

Why is there so many more negative remarks about hybrid and battery technology? This occurs everytime someones ask this topic. It is sad to see so many ill informed people give their opinion when they have not experienced it. It is like saying they do not like NAIM when they have never even heard a piece of music played throught a NAIM system!

My neighbour has sorted all his electrical problems. We live in an area which does not get alot of sun compared to say Saudi Arabia for argument sake. He has his roof covered by state of the art solar panels which not only guve him now free electricity but also form part of his roof! In fact he has so much electricity he has to sell it back to the grid! As for charging his car, it is not a problem.

As for range, lets be honest, how far do you travel in a day? Is 100 to 150 km not enough majority of the time? I do 70 km a day. I have hybrid and only ever see a petrol pump once a month. It is down to how you use your car i.e. how heavy is your right foot?. Never need to change brake pads on any of my car ever.

Do not get me started on tyre life, I will beat most of you hands down!

wellspyder

You can indeed obtain power from photo voltaic panels however, I have been involved in several commercial developments where these have been wheeled out as the solution to address the Planners' needs. On each and every project these have had to be rejected. Why? Because the capital expenditure required will never be repaid. When they become commercially viable I am sure they will be embraced with open arms by all developers. Until then....

As for range, 15km would be sufficient for most of my car journeys. However, I don't want to pay out for a car to serve most of my journeys - I want it to deal with all journeys on the public highway.

You've done really well with your hybrid. The point you may wish to consider, as mentioned above, is that you could do even better with one of the new tech diesel models.

Tyre life is a function of numerous factors. Not least the rubber compound used. If memory serves, the Prius comes with low rolling resistance tyres which not only last much longer than a 'normal' tyre, help also contribute towards improved fuel economy; they just don't enjoy the same levels of grip. Especially with all that dead weight comprising the battery packs. I wonder what the relative emergency stopping distances are...

I have no doubt that the technology will be developed into something truly viable, but, like photo voltaics, they have some way to go.

Peter

Dear Labrat,

The petrol engine charges the batteries while driving.

So why bother with the approx 200kg of batteries if you are going to use the engine.

Regenerative braking to charge the batteries.

How much energy is generated in 100ft of braking from 50mph. Bugger all i would suggest.

I still see no advantage in a hybrid compared to a fuel efficient modern shopping trolley car.

2 days a week i do 80km so with a range of 60km i would have to push the damned thing 20km home.

Unless i switch on the petrol engine.

ps the new HOLDEN HSV GTS with the new 6.2L engine looks fun. Or even the new Ford FPV turbo 6 which is much more fuel efficient for similar power.

regards David

Well, I have been known to make round trips around the 760 mile mark (around 1200km for those of you who like to say they're doing 160km/h rather than 100mph to massage their ego!), and I can do that on one tank with a heavily loaded car. Admittedly, for my routine rural/semi-rural driving I only get around 600miles to a tank, but I don't really imagine that a Hybrid would perform well at all under those kind of driving conditions. Not to mention that I've had low rolling resistance tires before, and they are dangerous in the road conditions we get round here in Winter!

I don't doubt that hybrids have a future for urban dwellers who are doing a lot of stop/start, and low speeds. I just think there are better options at the moment. The A2 I mentioned in automatic form put in "eco" mode does much that a hybrid does, stops and starts it's engine, coasts when you lift your foot off the gas etc, yet is a lot lighter due to the lack of huge batteries and its aluminium construction and gets far better millage than a Prius. For me Hybrid drive is completely meaningless, it is rare for me to be driving slowly enough or stopping and starting enough to see any benefit from carrying the extra battery weight.

Hmm, the Prius certainly polarises opinion. I personally think it has some good points and some bad, but on the whole it is not really as good as it’s made out to be. The low CO2 figure does not seem to reflect the average fuel economy this car seems to achieve. At the 45-50mpg average generally seen by the car we have here, it would put it equivalent to the Skoda Octavia 2.0tdi (145g/km). The reason the CO2 is so low? Hmm, I wonder if you could get the car to recognise it is on the (totally unrealistic) emissions drivecycle and get the electric motor to help more than normal………?
Yes regenerative braking does help so you can store the energy to use later (it also aids acceleration under high demand in the Prius’s case), yes the low resistance tyres and low aerodynamic drag help to reduce consumption (all good things) but travelling up the motorway at 70mph will not be using the batteries so you are stuck with having to lug the batteries and motor around with consequent weight penalty – not good for economy.
In the city under electric power it has a finite range. Once the batteries are depleted he engine is required to charge the batteries AND power the car, increasing fuel consumption more than required on petrol alone.
The stop-start technology does make sense, why have your engine running when you don’t need it?
BMW’s Intelligent Dynamics are inspired in their application by optimising aerodynamics and alternator charging (as well as stop start) to good effect all without the weight penalty of motors and batteries.
Diesel engines are good for economy as they are more thermally efficient than petrol engines, but their particulate and Nox emission are not good. But hey, it’s CO2 we get taxed on not total pollution. At least these can be overcome with particulate filters (generally unreliable and not suited to town driving) and urea injection (Mercedes Bluetec).
I think Toyota has got a lot more “Green” publicity than it deserves. How much energy is used to make these batteries? What happens to them when the car is scrapped? How are the batteries charged when the car comes off the production line? Coal power station? Petrol engine?
My ha’penny’s worth…

I wonder what a Prius would be like with a Chevy V8 427 block in it?

Heavier?

No less ugly but several factors more dangerous! Not necessarily heavier without all those batteries.

And why not go with a decent modern V8, rather than a massive monstrosity originally designed in the 1960s to pull trucks? I mean come on, even in its most recent incarnation it only produced 430bhp, you can get that from a modern engine almost 1/4 the size!

A female relative has a Prius - but it replaced an earlier one (bought 3 years before) which she drove into a lake in last year's floods, writing it off! The Toyota people couldn't fix it, apparently. I'd avoid.

Having said that, it really is about time the ultra-conservative motoring industry looked at ways of producing better cars which don't need petrol. Hopeless lot.

quote:

Originally posted by djftw:
And why not go with a decent modern V8, rather than a massive monstrosity originally designed in the 1960s to pull trucks? I mean come on, even in its most recent incarnation it only produced 430bhp, you can get that from a modern engine almost 1/4 the size!

It originated from a 1945 design to be pedantic, but I think you are missing the point, which was irony. It sounds nice and will give 8 mpg on a run. The ultimate finger to the environmentalists.

To be even more pedantic you're thinking of the 348, the 427 was first produced in 1963. However, I am fully supportive of giving the finger to environmentalist!

quote:

I mean come on, even in its most recent incarnation it only produced 430bhp, you can get that from a modern engine almost 1/4 the size!

Try getting a 2.0 l to produce 600+ ft/lbs of torque though.

quote:

Originally posted by djftw:
To be even more pedantic you're thinking of the 348, the 427 was first produced in 1963.

Smartarse