How many of you run valve amps with Naim source?

What works well?. I'm afraid you don't go into enough detail. If your'e(unnamed) Naim Source doesn't work into your'e (unnamed)tube preamp does that mean your'e using it to directly drive your'e (unnamed) tube power amps.?

Yours in Music

Syd

Kuma--

When I worked in a shop, we tried Naim sources (and an LP12) into a variety of tube gear. It always sounded OK, but nothing to write home about. Then we tried a Naim source into a Naim preamp (82/Hicap) into a tube power amp. THAT worked brilliantly--I could finally hear why people bother with tubes. The first amp we tried it with a CJ Premier 11i, and we looked at each other and said Oh--it really doesn't suck! Substituting a 250 changed things up a great deal, and for me, improved it a great deal, but at least one could hear the point--great soundstaging, imaging, depth out to the garage, air, blah blah blah. Neat to listen to, but not for too long. Substituting a 52 with the tube amp made things better, but not by nearly the margin one would expect. So I wonder about the definition of "transparency" so often used by hifi reviewers and the like.

One of the lessons I took away was that the preamp is absolutely critical. Another was that system matching matters. If your speakers work well with tube power, try a Naim source and preamp. I'm not surprised the Naim source into tube preamp didn't work--I've never heard a tube preamp I could live with, and I've heard some of the "best" and certainly some of the most expensive...

Best,

Bob

Kuma,

Being on the hunt for a new power amp to replace 135's I've beeing listening to a lot of options recently. I tried a ASL Hurricane 200W tube amp, which is all the rage in the US right now, and it worked quite well (front end CDS2 / 52 into B&W N802). It really didn't sound very tubey and had good drive but not enough control and a little too much tube nose (hiss) through the speakers. Worth hearing though.

Since then I've had in a Naim 300, Bryston 14BSST, and just now a Plinius SA-102. One of these 3 amps wipes the floor with the others and just about everything else I've ever heard. Any guesses?

Colin Lorenson

Guilty!

I've been using an Audio Innovations 500 as my amp since 1988. Over the years it's been modified and upgraded, so it's a considerable distance from it's 1988 spec today. This year, after another refurbishment and rebuild it was treated to an external power supply by Boarder Patrol.

There's a Hi Capped CD5 on the front end. The reason this happened was because my much loved Marantz CD94/CDA94 became unecconomic to repair and the CD5 was simply the best CDP I could find up to £1500. Adding a Hi Cap later turned out to be the bargain of all time in terms of what came out of the system compared with how much money got fed in.

I know this setup isn't exactly what many people in here would call HiFi, and it's an area where two worlds collide, but it works fine for me. Upgrades are not planned soon but when they happen they will be front end only. I'm now in a situation where the system has evolved to the point where the amp costs twice the value of the front end. In my book, I'd need a £3000+ CDP before upping the amps or speakers.

Take the piss all you want. I LOVE my system and I spend all my money on CDs. I must admit being seriously impressed by a 200/202 combo I borrowed recently. But like I said, my hands will only go into my pockets fro a better front end at the moment. And that's not a pressing need right now.

Cheers

Harry

Wierd but happy.

Kuma,

I've done it and it works. I ran 72/hi into a vintage dynaco st70 for a couple of years and felt fairly well satisfied, especially given the extremely low cost of the dynaco. I have friends who are way into tubes and I've always appreciated the virtues of tubes. Despite whatever criticisms they warrant, they do things that most solid state amps don't do well.

If you do decide to try this, be aware that the impedance matching with your interconnects can affect the sound significantly and result in a rolled off treble. A good dealer should be able to help point the way.

Markus
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Originally posted by Bob Edwards:
One of the lessons I took away was that the preamp is absolutely critical. Another was that system matching matters. If your speakers work well with tube power, try a Naim source and preamp. I'm not surprised the Naim source into tube preamp didn't work--I've never heard a tube preamp I could live with, and I've heard some of the "best" and certainly some of the most expensive...

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Bob,

yeah.. that's where I am netting out so far, too. Preamp is the culprit here that cdx II isn't souding the way it should.

when i skip the nagra pre and used with Naim Headline, transprency and immediacy come back instantly. This is not to say that Nagra pre suck cuz 8 out of 10 this preamp actually enhances clarity more so than other preamps both solid states and tube offerings I had.

Puzzling, i put it through only solid state preamp i have in the house with my SET monoblocs.
This is more like it. Since I don't have other tube preamps that work with the power amp I am using, I've no way of knowing if in fact all tube pres won't work with Naim source.

I am guessing that since it's a night and day difference between two diffrent systems CDX was in, it might be due to some sort of *electrical* mismatch with nagra pre's specs. i.e. pronounced flat top end, softtish overblown midbass and down. ( ok. softish midbass still remains with solid state pre, but it's loooot better cotntrolled )

thanks for sharing your experience.

quote:

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Originally posted by HTK:
Guilty!

I've been using an Audio Innovations 500 as my amp since 1988. Over the years it's been modified and upgraded, so it's a considerable distance from it's 1988 spec today. This year, after another refurbishment and rebuild it was treated to an external power supply by Boarder Patrol.

There's a Hi Capped CD5 on the front end. The reason this happened was because my much loved Marantz CD94/CDA94 became unecconomic to repair and the CD5 was simply the best CDP I could find up to £1500. Adding a Hi Cap later turned out to be the bargain of all time in terms of what came out of the system compared with how much money got fed in.

I know this setup isn't exactly what many people in here would call HiFi, and it's an area where two worlds collide, but it works fine for me. Upgrades are not planned soon but when they happen they will be front end only. I'm now in a situation where the system has evolved to the point where the amp costs twice the value of the front end. In my book, I'd need a £3000+ CDP before upping the amps or speakers.

Take the piss all you want. I LOVE my system and I spend all my money on CDs. I must admit being seriously impressed by a 200/202 combo I borrowed recently. But like I said, my hands will only go into my pockets fro a better front end at the moment. And that's not a pressing need right now.

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Right on Harry!

quote:

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Since then I've had in a Naim 300, Bryston 14BSST, and just now a Plinius SA-102. One of these 3 amps wipes the floor with the others and just about everything else I've ever heard. Any guesses?

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er.. I gotta guess Naim 300 out of the other.. Plinius? ewww.

Hiss via speakers? hmm.. noisy tube stuff makes me crazy too. Did you check all tubes? If you are using the stock tubes still, they might be the culprit.

quote:

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Originally posted by syd:
What works well?. I'm afraid you don't go into enough detail. If your'e(unnamed) Naim Source doesn't work into your'e (unnamed)tube preamp does that mean your'e using it to directly drive your'e (unnamed) tube power amps.?

Yours in Music

Syd

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Syd,

I was just curious to see if anyone else use naim source with tube amps.

I am quite surprised some actually tried it with good results
All Naim system isnt the only way to get there apparently.

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Originally posted by kuma:
All Naim system isnt the only way to get there apparently.

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If I was "getting there" with decent money and a clean sheet I might well be the owner of a tasteful rack of sexy black and green boxes. It's more where I've come from that dictates where I am and where I might be going.

Now I've gone and confused myself.

As an aside, and not wishing to pull the thread off topic, I got a letter today informing me that my dealer isn't a Naim dealer any more. Bit sad that. I guess it happens...

My current main system is Croft Vitale valve pre into Linn LK85 via a -14dB Kimber Tonik interconnect, powering Intro 2s. The attenuation is needed because the Croft has an absurdly high output, presumably to complement Croft valve power amps. Even the -14dB is not enough to give me much usable volume control, which is why at the moment I'm using a Marantz CD6000 KIS - which has variable output - as source. Sounds wonderful. The Croft is very transparent and punchy - not what many people think of as a valve sound I imagine. Just right for the Intros too, which highlight any graininess. I did try my CD3 briefly, and it sounded great. Need to get some Rothwell attenuators so that I can try it as the main source without going deaf.

I'm truely amased at the responces.

I thought I was the only *crazy* that run Naim with valve amps.

Very interesting.

My previous setup was a CD3-5/Hi into the McCormack TLC-1 pre and a modded Jolida 202a – driving the Spendor S3/5 on mass loaded stands.

The music was highly emotional and communicative but I wanted some ‘urgency’ in my larger indies/progressive pop/rock collection, so I went for full Naim electronics and an Epos M12 at the other end.

There are some common misconceptions on Naim being a ‘closed’ system and one can only enjoy if it’s fully Naimed. It is true that one could hardly go wrong with a full Naim setup but it can be equally rewarding if the match is done correctly. However, a mix and match system requires that extra bit of luck and a whole lot of time (with cables and/or speakers matching).

I still miss the lushy warm mids of the EL34s and the neutral tonality of the Spendors sometimes but I am equally delighted with my current setup.

Bottom line is - do you enjoy the music?

quote:

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Originally posted by Naimed:
My previous setup was a CD3-5/Hi into the McCormack TLC-1 pre and a modded Jolida 202a – driving the Spendor S3/5 on mass loaded stands.

The music was highly emotional and communicative but I wanted some ‘urgency’ in my larger indies/progressive pop/rock collection, so I went for full Naim electronics and an Epos M12 at the other end.

There are some common misconceptions on Naim being a ‘closed’ system and one can only enjoy if it’s fully Naimed. It is true that one could hardly go wrong with a full Naim setup but it can be equally rewarding if the match is done correctly. However, a mix and match system requires that extra bit of luck and a whole lot of time (with cables and/or speakers matching).

I still miss the lushy warm mids of the EL34s and the neutral tonality of the Spendors sometimes but I am equally delighted with my current setup.

Bottom line is - do you enjoy the music?

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Naimed,

yeah... I am an outsider looking in as far as Naimie cult thing that has been going on for a long time. I don't really belong to any school of thoughts whether valve, solidstate, cones, horns or what have you.

I don't know who built up the *strict* Naim rule ( Linn is sort of the same thing isn't it? ), conversing with 'Naim people' in my view is *scary* as mingling with horn/valve types.

My valve amps do not have an archetypical tube sound and actually have Naim-like tendencies. Of course minus the horse power and the price tag of Naim.

I'm with you in that as long it works it doesn't matter how.

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Originally posted by hockman:
Kuma:

It is a misconception that you need an all-naim system. Naim certainly markets this view, and as a manufacturer, it is expected that they would. It is also a lot easier than mixing and matching and Naim products work well enough with each other.

BUT, one can get very good, if not superior, results by using other brands with say, a Naim source. I've certainly done this, I no longer buy into the "all-Naim" hype and I make no apologies.

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Hock,

Everytime I hear any one-make system ( not just Naim ), somehow, somewhere, something is missing.

Stereo is such a subjective thing, my guess is that it's almost impossible to find the producer, especially usually founded by a designer, who share the same *aural* vision.

Also, most company seem to have hits and misses in what they do. Linn, I think is good for sources. Never understood why they even bother making speakers. Krell is on the way to the same boat. As far as speakers goes, they are no threat to anyone that I can see.

Naim, I am not familiar enuf to know what they are best at yet. ( I like their source and amplifiers thus far )

Having said that, I do like their general leaning and individualism than many out there.