So many shops opening on Boxing day??

I do have sympathy with your view. I can remember back to when my grandfather could/would be working Christmas day(morning) as there were buses and trains in those days, I don't think they ran Boxing Day though. Pubs were always were.It always seemed shops were closed for several days, how we managed then without fridges etc I do not know.
I don't see why they have to play bloody football on BH either.Mind you I don't see why they should play it any other day either.

Can you imagine the PANIC at the supermarket now if they closed for 2 whole days akin to civil war I suspect.
I too think being closed CD and BD would not be a bad thing. These days with the amount of "split" families you would have thought there would be a need for at least 2 shopping free days.
Apparently we used to manage with the shops being closed on Sundays can you imagine how much profit was being wasted ?
As the 267th Ferengi Rule of acquisition says " Never waste an opportunity to fleece a customer"

Happy shopping everybody.

Howard

A saying in the retail trade is " The Customer is always right " therefore retailers are bending over backwards to satisfy customers needs.When I started in the Grocery retail trade in 1979 it was not considered as big business,the manufacturing industries ruled then.How times have changed.
Retail expansion really accelerated in the late eighties and nineties and for the selected few large retailers, was very big business and huge profits were made sometimes to the detriment of the staff they employed and small businesses.My contract at the time as a Dept Manager was "Hours as required " which meant I had to work overtime at a flat rate if the business so required it.
Working Sundays was the final straw for me and I left the retail trade soon afterwards.I can't understand how customers cannot complete
grocery shopping between Monday and Saturday.Spare a thought for the poor souls that have to work when the majority don't have too.The retail trade is huge business today and to some extent very much media driven.There are retailers already open 24 hours.
Personally speaking the Retail Trade overstepped the mark with Sunday opening and it won't be too long before stores are open 24hrs,seven days a week.How sad, and the customer is not always right but in todays cut throat business, the customer rules.

Chaps

I think extended shopping hours is one of those issues that boils down to the fact that it is the customer (us) who dictates what happens.

I have never gone shopping on boxing and hopefully never will. But the shops only open because customers pile in. If we all stayed away the shops would not bother to open.

Also it is not just the shops that are affected, there is a whole army of low paid workers behind the scenes being exploited over this. My eldest son is the general manager of a massive warehouse stocking goods that are on sale today. He had an army of low paid temps in yesterday (Christmas Day) to fill up lorries etc and naturally they were paid normal rates and will be sacked this weekend. My son is having two days off but his mobile was fairly busy.

Enjoy your shopping trip chaps.

Regards

Mick

The sight, on the news, of all those 'gimme gimme' avaricious bargain-grabbers is quite sickening. A 10p charge should be levied on all those entering shops on Boxing Day, the proceeds to go towards helping the homeless.
How long, I wonder, before there is Xmas Day opening?

The term "loved ones" reminds me of the Evelyn Waugh book - The Loved One - a book set in and around the LA funeral industry.

Should the shops be open on Boxing Day.

At first glance this seemed like a pointlessly trivial question. My gut reaction was "why not" but the Q/A kept re-appearing and wouldn't go away. I then began to realise, this is THE most fundamental question of all Global commerce and politics.

In answering this question, we have to decide between a free market and communism, between democracy and dictatorship, between a financially driven economy or an environmentally driven economy, between religion and atheism, between…………..every decision that makes an individual tick and the global population survive.

Back at the more pragmatic level, to those who consider shops should not be open on Boxing Day, I ask "which shops?" and "who should decide?"

Does that include ice-cream vendors, garages that sell sweets, garages that sell petrol, garden centres, pubs, restaurants, airport duty-free shops. Or were we all just thinking it applies to DFS , B&Q and Tesco?

Why stop at Boxing Day. Why not every Sunday? Ok make that Saturday so that we don't confuse it with Christianity. No, can't have Saturday because of the Jews, nor Friday. Better make it Wednesday (anybody else remember Wednesday half-day closing?)

Why stop at shops. The airline industry, rail travel, coach travel, hotels, health service, road construction, railway infrastructure maintenance…..the list seems almost endless….And if all of these could stop on Boxing day, they could stop every Sunday. Then nobody would feel pressurised into working seven days a week or opting out of the Working-Time Directive.

As I said above, this is THE most fundamental question of all Global commerce and politics.

Cheers

Don

Here (France) pretty much everything stops for lunch - it is infuriating and civilised.

You could have any system you want - but not if you set it up in competition with systems that move towards constant labour and low pay. And they, for their part, can only improve their lot (in financial terms) by offering those competitive products and services.

Don,

You raise an interesting question about applicability and of course I'm not advocating that the NHS should shut on Boxing Day. As an airline employee I'm not even suggesting that my industry should shut down either. In short I see transport, NHS, police, rail, utilities (i.e. key infrastructure services) having to operate on Boxing Day as they always have. My objection is to the huge store chains who by opening practically every day are now changing the feel of the day from one that emphasises family, relationships etc to one that emphasises commerce.

Adam - your point about the inexorable drive towards constant labour and low pay is well made. It worries me that in Britain we seem keen to emulate America rather than Europe in this respect. If you chase efficiency to its ultimate capitalist conclusion you end up with 365 day working, low pay and a nightmare scenario for workers and overall quality of life.

The only way I can see to ensure this doesn't happen is to introduce protectionism to ensure British industry isn't undercut by Chinese etc and thus British jobs and terms and coditions are protected. Of course doing this is anathema to current thinking where efficiency must be pursued at all cost!

Don - you're right, it's the biggest issue and probably the most complex! I was recently shocked to hear that Meade the world's largest telescope maker has just had to shut down its Irvine California plant in order to transfer production overseas - add that to the list of firms such as Dyson who have already done so.

Glad to hear that life at Naim still revolves around lunch (do you still have the executive dining room with he finest linen, tableware and wines??)

Jonathan

We spent Boxing Day at the races at Kempton Park. We had a really great time. It was a bit like the sales, in that there was a huge crowd and a lot of money was changing hands, but whereas I went to this event gladly wild horses (forgive the pun) could not have dragged me to the shops. (and I didn't end up with a load of stuff I don't want or need but couldn't resist because it was a "bargain". That said, I did invest in one nag at 100 - 1 and as far as I know it's still somewhere on the far side of the course!

quote:

You raise an interesting question about applicability and of course I'm not advocating that the NHS should shut on Boxing Day. As an airline employee I'm not even suggesting that my industry should shut down either. In short I see transport, NHS, police, rail, utilities (i.e. key infrastructure services) having to operate on Boxing Day as they always have. My objection is to the huge store chains who by opening practically every day are now changing the feel of the day from one that emphasises family, relationships etc to one that emphasises commerce.

First, I must make my own position clear. I work most weekends and most public holidays. But not Xmas day or Boxing day, simply because most flying schools are closed on those two days along with most small airfields. I concur with Jonathan's summary above that, by opening practically every day, the huge store chains are now changing the feel of Boxing day from one that emphasises family relationships etc to one that emphasises commerce. However, I feel this also about Sundays, and would like to see a return to "keep Sunday special" where the emphasis is on family recreation activity, with only the recreation industry operating (along with essential services and essential maintenance in other industries.

Since industry and commerce won't implement such a policy itself, it will require government incentives or legistlation to be effective. Of course, even today, many people could choose a lifestyle, including employment, to suit their own preferences - rather like Adam suggests. However, such idyllic self-determination isn't achievable by everyone, and as indicated in the Queen's Christmas Message, society should seek to help the vulnerable, not set out to exploit them.

Cheers

Don

quote:

Since industry and commerce won't implement such a policy itself, it will require government incentives or legistlation to be effective. Of course, even today, many people could choose a lifestyle, including employment, to suit their own preferences - rather like Adam suggests. However, such idyllic self-determination isn't achievable by everyone, and as indicated in the Queen's Christmas Message, society should seek to help the vulnerable, not set out to exploit them. Cheers Don

The trouble with this is that the most vulnerable are those least able to select their style of employment.

In my view there should be an absolute ban on Sunday opening and also opening on the Easter Holidays [Good Friday and Easter Monday] as well as all Sundays.

I would also revert to all licenced premisses closing at 22:30 hours, to stop the last night nonsenses that is the modern town centre at night these days. the answer for revelry in that case would be to start earlier, if it is absolutely necessary.

I would also ban the setting-off of fireworks except under Magistrate Licence on any day other than Bonfire night.

I would ...

Good job I am not in charge isn't it! George

quote:

I would ...

re-introduce conscription (but for 3 years) for all 18 year olds

and only let those with 4 "proper" A-Levels at grade A go to a (proper) University (none of these silly up-start polytechs)to study "proper" subjects like science, business and engineering

I would.....

as I said above, "this is THE most fundamental question of all Global commerce and politics".

....by the time i'm finished, George and everybody else would actually wish George WAS in charge....

Cheers

Don,

I will be Culture Secretary in your Cabinet!

I would actually only hope for twelve months of conscription, but that is a trifling divergence of view!

I would ban Sociology and Psychology [among others] as A-level subjects, not by actually outlawing them of course, but by the means of charging £10K per year of fees for the course, which should prove a sufficient disincentive to wasting the time to youngsters and their parents.

In fact I have a proposition on University Degree Courses:

Every year we know that we need say 50 Astro-physicists, say 400 Civil Engineers, say 600 Maths Teachers or whatever, so that this number plus five percent should be completely state subventioned to the absolute best candidates to read suitable degrees. The courses should be available to all, but on a cost plus profit basis to those less able candidates. Thus the couses that only cause graduates to be over-qualified MacDonalds sales people would soon wither away, and net the state would benefit from the necessary skills base to fill the jobs that actually need doing.

I would carry this through to the Techs and Polys, on the basis that we need say 1000 plumbers per year, 500 car mechanics, and 750 electricians ...

I realise the numbers quoted are entirely speculative, but if we need 10 Sociologists per year then 10 places at a specialist Sociology department at Oxford or Cambridge should be offered free to the best qualified candidates [who will have done A-levels in useful subjects like Enlish]!

I would raise the age of leaving education sufficiently to guarantee that everyone ended with a vocational trade skill or graduation reading a useful degree, and prevent unemployment benefit being pid till the final exams had been taken. Straight from the end of education 12 months in the Armed services would follow, and I believe that we might end up with a much more vibrant and more usefully qualified work-force than now. Somewhat like the Poles here now, who face something of this sort at home!

I would ban any pupil at primary schools doing any subject apart from the three "Rs" until after they had successfully completed a basic competency tests and passed at say the age of 10 years old. These tests would be run by the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge jointly, and quite independant of gov't interference, to prevent grade inflation and dumbing down. It seems to me pointless trying to teach natural history, or geography to someone who cannot read, and leaving the start till later will soon be caught up if they are very good readers.

On the broader front:

I would ban any state aid to political parties, but insist that all donations, however small, be declared and published in the London Gazette, for public scrutiny. Non-compliance would lead to a mandatory jail sentence, and life ban from public office for those caught fiddling. I would insist that there was a referendum on Proportional Representation, which would be binding on Parliament to implement according to the result.

I would abandon variable rate taxation on income and adopt a flat rate of 25% starting at a personal allowance set at the level of a resonable living wage, say £10K.

Child benefit would be paid on the first child only to encourage a population shrinkage as will be be necessary in future. There would be no tax adavntage or disadvantage to marriage, beyond a transferable personal allowance between married couples, where only one is in work.

There are a few pointers for you! Would you have me to direct government policy on the Arts?

ATB from George

quote:

to study "proper" subjects like science, business and engineering

business a proper subject?

I don't like the fact there are now newspapers on Boxing Day and Good Friday - these together with Christmas Day should be kept special with shops closed - I mean what next Sunday opening?

quote:

Would you have me to direct government policy on the Arts?

Couldn't have asked for anybody better. Nation-wide live concerts free at the point of delivery.....so no need for expensive hifi systems using megawatts of electricity and creating magatonnes of CO2......

...perhaps you could think this one through a bit more carefully before Adam (Secretary of State for Wines and Siestas) moderates the "no need for expensive hifi systems" bit....

Cheers

Don

George's state would, of course, be called cloud cuckoo land.

Dear Bob,

Why?

I have no great interest in politics because it seems to me that all of them seem to concentrate on looking after those they choose to patronise, rather than particularly providing a healthy choice of a true party for the workers [who have done quite badly thank you under Labour] and a true party of business, with the genuine presence of a radical Liberal Party.

I have no idea what any of them would do given a new mandate now, but certainly the Labour Party has hardly performed as one would expect for a Party with a Socialist tradition, or based on their manifesto at any of the elections.

So if I put up a few original Policies, then I hardly think that disserves pooh, poohing, without more effort than you put into your answer.

What would be wrong with 12 months National Service?

What would be wrong with focussing education on the needs of the country? Apparently illiteracy is not better than it was in 1970, so I think we can take it that education as it stands is failing. We need to face these things. I don't know what you do Bob, but to be honest, education and its implementation is probably the biggest unspoken scandal in the country today. A vast leviathan of an organisation, which is ill fitted for the job, and frankly terrible in many aspects, so that mauling it into the twenty first century is going to be terrifying prospect. As a non-politician, I can at least start a debate.

While we are at it why allow an education establishment so clearly unfitted to doing the job or equipping our youngsters with the basics and then following this up by providing them with ongoing development into areas that will benefit them and prove of real value to them throughout life!

In this way tailoring the number given free education in any particular subject seems entirely reasonable to me. Once the full annual quota has been filled with the best in any subject area [of education] charging those who prove to have worked less well, or are less able for the same courses also seems entirely sensible, when they would be surplus to requirements if qualified in that area. Those less suited to a given subject would be offered free education in a vocation more suited their abilities. Would you be so kind as to address this point?

No benefit arrises from wasting two years on A-levels and three on a degree course in a subject for which there is no demand at the end. What are the actual numbers of vacancies, annually for Sociologists or Psychologists, for example? I put into this category beside Psychology and Sociology, other such rare professions qualified for with Media Studies, Theatre Studies, and so on. If a person is interested in these areas, there is absolutely no reason why they cannot study them, but no in my view at the Tax Payer's expense. I am sure you will at least see that there is a reason to tailor the numbers allowed to do these fluffy pink subjects at the tax payers’ expense being accurately related in numbers to the potential jobs for those who qualify in them!

Such luxury would in fact be more acceptable if the basics were done better, not least the Three "Rs" at Primary School. Until we get to all who are not mentally deficient being good are reading, writing, and arithmetic at a young age, then I think a long hard look at the competency not just of teachers, but the whole education system in the state sector.

_______________

What is worng with a referendum on PR?

As for the Tax proposals I put forward there are indeed strong arguments for a flat rate of income taxation dtarting at a significantly higher level of personal allowance! I has the great advantage of being inherently fair, if you examine it, without being a disincentive to the rich remaining here. Where there might prove to a need to balance the tax take with our current very high levels, I would put this extra take onto a luxury goods tax at whatever level was needed to balance the books. This would include new cars with tendencies to excessive consumption. Car Purchase tax could be set at say 10% added for all vehicals up to 90 horsepower with a capacity of 1.6 litres, 20% for cars up to 140 horsepower and 2 litres, 30 up 180 and 2,6 and so forth till owning a five litre gas-guzzler is going to be very expensive indeed. Technically it would possible and advisable to also have a limit on CO Two emissions for each tax bracket as well, so that if any of the figures are above the given limit then the tax bracket raises ...

Bob, that was a long replay. I hope you will take equal trouble to answer not just this post, but the one you dismissed in one possibly rather trite line ...

ATB from George

quote:

While we are at it why allow an education establishment so clearly unfitted to doing the job or equipping our youngsters with the basics and then following this up by providing them with ongoing development into areas that will benefit them and prove of real value to them throughout life!

This should have been expressed as follows:

While we are at it why allow an education establishment, so clearly currently ill-fitted to doing the job of equipping our youngsters with the basics and then following this up by providing them with ongoing development into areas that will benefit them and prove of real value to them throughout life to remain unquestioned, unexamined, and ultimately unreformed at a radical level?

ATB from George

Dear Frank,

The problem it seems to me is that our politicians are in thrall to various vested interests, and certainly their own self interests, which would be somewhat reduced if we cut the time they could hold office as you suggest.

Commerce has to be pandered to so we end up with 24 hour pub opening, and Sunday opening of retail outlets, for just two examples, and the real needs of people are left further down the list. Strangely the current often effectively minority ellected style of first past the post system of electing our governement has produced a situation where radical ideas and also a reasonable range of choices of policies from our elected Parliamentarians has been reduced in near non-existence.

This is not healthy for the future of our country or indeed the vigourous and free society that we have, as a nation, fought for for hundreds of years. Strange that the very system of democracy that we have established at considerable effort and strife is probably the biggest threast to our free future, because the politicians themselves are so disreputable and the casue of so much appathy about what can be achieved in the act of voting ...

As for eduation, the most important thing would be to ensure that all who are not so challenged that they cannot, are taught to read, write and do the basic minima in arithmetic required in daily life. Teaching foreign languages, geography, history, even RE will naturally follow on once these basicss are covered.

As for secondary, higher and further education, this seems well out of kilter to me. In fact if we do not straighten this out then we shall sink back into oblivion as our competitors, who are doing this better, overtake us. For all the fun of of doing these "fluffy" social science topics and other hedonistic arts subjects, well fun they are for some people, but I see no reason why the general tax payer should subvention them. If I want to read up on music, I see no reason why that activity should be paid for by others. On the other hand there is no doubt that we lack many essential skills from brick layers, plumbers, electricians, to real scientists, civil engineers, metalurgists, doctors, nurses, and the list goes on. A great dose of common sense needs applying, rather than wasting both tax payers' money and peoples' time on wasting their best learning years on subjects which are nothing useful or other than a personal luxury.

What strikes me is that to hold common sense views on this is apt to leave one open to attack as living in cloud cuckoo-land!

ATB from George

Dear Frank,

In a strange way the fact that some of these obscure degrees exist [I heard one was offered on the subject of David Beckham, though this may be wrong] show a disregard for the practicalities! Selling cars is something you can either do or not! A degree is not going to make any difference! But it would be hard to see how one could be a useful metalurgist without one for example.

I am glad that Spain is not open on Sundays!

Anyway I have a nice little tangle going on about the Gramophone if you are interested, in the Hifi Corner!!!

ATB from George