Am I a PRaT?

= Pace, Rhythm and Timing

Cheers,

Tim

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Os nid Campagnolo yw hi, dyw hi ddim yn werth ei marcho...

Pseudo Realistic Audio Terminology

I thought it was pitch, rhythm and timing. Pitch is a very important and strong aspect (IMO) of naim. All instruments played thru naim sounds like the real thing, in varying scale depending on the size of your system.

Pace seems to have the same meaning as timing I think.

david

Thanks for enlightening me - I suspected it might be something along those lines.

Actually, I did think it might be "Physically Real Acoustically Tremedous"......

However, I do believe there's more to music than JUST those elements.

The pace, rhythm and timing of the Linn Kabers I auditioned X? years ago was great. The detail was great. Picking out individual instruments was dead easy.
HOWEVER, the SBL's I was comparing them to, were simply, more involving, more musical. So I bought them. My dealer at the time thought I was mad! A year or so later, he had sold his own personal Kabers and bought SBL's.....

Pace, Rhythm and Timing? Mmmm, there's more to enjoying music. IMHO.

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

This old issue of timing... really comes down to the bass transient response. Many (especially ported) speakers have a bass which has poor transient response....the bass appears to lag behind the other instruments.....loss of timing. Timing is (Naim certainly agree with this) one of the most important aspects of music. You can achieve good timing by having a tightly damped bass. The danger is: percieved loss of bass extension, and the perception that the sound is rather dry(lacking in "air") and sterophonically flat(lacking depth). Some speakers have achieved deep, tight crisp bass....e.g. Isobariks...these tend to be expensive (to buy) and because of the inevitable evil load, are expensive to drive properly (i.e power amps of high quality capable of delivering lots of current to low impedance loads)
Another side effect of speakers with well damped bass can be the subjective impression of mid/upper mid forwardness

For most people, they are usually prepared to sacrifice that last ounce of bass extension for decent timing. In my view, sloppy underdamped bass is the worst of all evils....it totally destroys the communication of the music.

Cheers

Laurie S

Pretty Rudamentory Audio Term!

Very accurate description, Laurie.

That's exactly why I fall in love (well almost...) with the LS3/5 when my local dealer demoed me a pair a few years ago when I was hunting for speakers.
And I intend to keep 'em a long time

Jean-Marc

Surely the 'P' must be for pace? Or at least not pitch, if that is just frequency. Whilst audio components might distort the shape of a waveform, or disproportionately emphasise certain harmonics etc., surely they don't meddle with the frequency of a waveform?

Regards,
Dan

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surely they don't meddle with the frequency of a waveform?

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No they don't meddle with the waveform, but certain hi-fi components (not Naim ones) allow notes to run into each other so that the sense of pitch is lost, or there isn't sufficient detail for you to decipher the exact pitch of a note.

Some hi-fi kt places smoothness above hearing the music - i.e: the notes formed accurately. I'd call this concept musical infidelity.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

quote:

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The pace, rhythm and timing of the Linn Kabers I auditioned X? years ago was great. The detail was great. Picking out individual instruments was dead easy.
HOWEVER, the SBL's I was comparing them to, were simply, more involving, more musical. So I bought them. My dealer at the time thought I was mad! A year or so later, he had sold his own personal Kabers and bought SBL's.....

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So Sound Advice Birmingham was it? And presumably we are talking about Andy here. I used to work with Andy there. I sold my Kabers for SBLs too. And now I've got DBLs. Mmmm.

Still hear from Andy?

I'm trying to remember who you are, your surname rings bells. I'm sure I'd recognise your face though. You don't own Stax headphone do you? Or did used to sell upmarket stationary?

[This message was edited by Martin M on TUESDAY 15 October 2002 at 22:34.]

Well, actually, it was Sound Advice Birmingham....

And yes it was Andy......

I actually saw him the time before the last time I bought a car....

He works at a BMW dealer now and I bought a 5 Series from him a few years ago! (Maybe 4?)

I've never really been a headphone person.... So Stax wasn't me...

I used to sell paper/self adhesives/packaging board etc. to printers. Could I be the person you're thinking of who sold "up market" stationary?????

At least Andy was honest enough to say he actually preferred a product he didn't initially buy!

Having said that, I'm sure lots of other people are more than happy with their Kabers - they just weren't for me...

So how come you're in the USA now?

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

quote:

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I used to sell paper/self adhesives/packaging board etc. to printers. Could I be the person you're thinking of who sold "up market" stationary?????

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And you used to drive a Rover Sterling (I think it was called that). I do remember you. It was the active SBLs and the taste for East Side Story that made me remember. You told me it was a great album in about 1990 and I eventually got around to buying it 8 years later (you are right by the way, it is a fine record).

I remember our first pair of Kabers when they first came in. Very impressive. Unfortunately, Linn didn't seem to agree and played around with the design a fair bit. They steadily went down hill. Also, once Andy and I had bought them, we found them quite hard to listen to in the long term and both swapped to SBL within a month of one another.

I now design satellite communications systems, and the US is place to be for the (admittidly rather exotic) part of the industry I'm involved. And the pay is better.

Glad you're doing fine.

You've got me!

I'm now rattling my brains to work out which person at S.A. you were!

East Side Story is still a cracking piece of Pop music! The lyrics and playing is great! I guess that's why I recently pulled it out again :-)

Glad to hear you're doing well (sounds like it!)

Martin.

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

Sound Advice was my "university years" job, meaning I was only there during holidays. I was at Leeds,and I remember you told me you knew the Hyde Park Pub.

So anyway, young at the time, tall, dark hair (er kind of sounds like a dodgy dating advert...). Also worked at Loughborough on Saturdays, post closing of the Brum store.

Penchant for Frank Zappa's music and Linn Kans, Kabers and Isobariks were probably the main standouts.

PRaT = Patriotism, Religion and Tea

It's a fair question. This may help:

Martin Colloms' article.

Makes quite a lot of sense, IMHO.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

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Originally posted by blythe:
OK, maybe I'm a prat or something, but what, excuse me, is PRaT?

....

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Phew. Must admit, I have been wondering about this very issue. Glad to see someone else has the cojones to ask, otherwise I might have made an ArSE of myself.
Like I care....

quote:

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Phew. Must admit, I have been wondering about this very issue. Glad to see someone else has the cojones to ask, otherwise I might have made an ArSE of myself.
Like I care....

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ArSE?

Don't you mean aRES? As in [b] a Round Earth Sucker.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.