Speakers first!!!
Posted by: Bas V on 28 December 2002
Hi guys,
As I have not been totally satisfied with my system the last months, I went to a local hifi shop with my Nait 5 + HiCap and CD 5 (whose HiCap I left home). I asked the dealer, which doesn't sell Naim to hook up some speakers to show me the potential of this set up. He was familiar with the Naim sound and connected a pair of Vienna Acoustics Beethoven (Euro 2700 p.p.). Woohaa, there was the fun again!!! No idea my setup could do this, it was beautiful. Very fast, detailled, spacious and very musical. Way better than the ProAc Tablette 50's, which should be considering their way lower price. Next the dealer hooked up a pair of SF Gran Piano's (also 2700 euro's p.p.). Richard, if you're reading this, you are so wrong. These SF's also sounded magnificent on my setup. I definitely prefer them to Signums! So, I now know it's the speakers that need replacement. And no way that I am going for some cheap ones, I am forgetting the source first principle. The Naim 5 series are good enough for some serious partnerring!!!
BTW, Alco, have you ever tried the AH! speaker cables? Cheap (100 euro for 2 x 4 metres, with terminations), flexible and very good!!! Try them once.
Greetz, Bas
Posted on: 28 December 2002 by count.d
I agree with your statement.
I had Kans for years and was never happy with the sound, no matter what I added at the front end. I tested the Shahinian Compass and the whole music became fun with plenty of involving, heart thumping bass. I started listening to all my lp's again with far more enjoyment.
I ended up buying the Obelisks at a much higher price and have not regretted it.
The source first principle will always be the correct way of upgrading, but it's not always the best.
The Kans are good value for money, but they throttle the sound.
Posted on: 28 December 2002 by Don Atkinson
Bas,
You have done the right thing.....you went and listened.
No matter how much we spend, all hifi is a compromise (in fact most things are). It would be worthwhile auditioning a simarly priced cd player (for example) before buying speakers, just to be absolutely certain that the speakers do provide a better upgrade for you.
I repeat my experience below, which I recently posted when someone asked about buying an 82 preamp. You will see that, to my ears, the best upgrade were the speakers.
A personal view
I used to have (LP12/Grace/Supex)/12s/160/JR149.(CD hadn't been invented !!)
When the time came for upgrade the choice was
Ittok
Asak
32.5
250
Isobariks
I auditioned the lot (at Naim) and bought the Isobariks, because they delivered a better impresion of bass and the overall sound was reasonably well balanced ie a good compromise.
About 4 years ago I bought a pair of Wilson System V speakers for exactly the same reasons, ie they brought the music to life far better than a cd player or preamp upgrade could do.
Source first, at least in principle?? NEVER. The only principle is to go listen. Its your ears that count. IF I did have a 'principle' it would probably be to keep a reasonably balanced system eg avoid Kans on the end of a cd500/552/active 500 system........unless this was a 6-month interim step until the NBLs were delivered.
Naturally the usual cavaets apply to ensure fair demonstrations and to avoid "glitz" traps etc
Hope you enjoy choosing your speakers
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 28 December 2002 by graphoman
your way may be opposite to mine. Some 25 years ago we started on the basis of German wisdom (“speakers first”) and sticked to it as long as it was possible. Since then what I could held from the old theory is that speakers really could be the weakest link but only in totally unbalanced systems. (Or friend count.d does not tell us what a front end he has. Kans are tiny things and work only in front-end-heavy systems.)
I don’t really want to state I can judge this most-important topic of audio. I only may describe my feelings. Changing to better speakers allways gave me great impressions and great hopes that was not then fulfilled at all. Changing to better front end allways improved listenability and it did fulfilled all my expectaions.
graphoman
Posted on: 28 December 2002 by herm
Hi Bas,
haven't you always been rather sensitive to speaker issues?
Those Beethovens look good, but how about placement? Somehow they look like they want a lot of wiggle room at the rear.
But my real question is did you try the (2 woofer / 1 tweetie) Mozart as well (and which dealer is this)?
Best wishes for 2003 for the two of you!
Herman
Posted on: 28 December 2002 by Alco
quote:
BTW, Alco, have you ever tried the AH! speaker cables? Cheap (100 euro for 2 x 4 metres, with terminations), flexible and very good!!! Try them once.
Hi Bas,
Long time no 'see' eh.
I haven't tried the AH-speaker cable yet, but to be honest I'm very satisfied with my 'Rinsma' cable. which came Very cheap at only 4,50 euro(!) a meter! (which probably makes it the best value for money cable there is) It's also flexible and thin but it also looks kinda cheap though.) (like ordinary 'schemerlampsnoer')
Let us know when you have your new speakers, and how they compliment your system,ok ?!
btw, I'm also still looking for a replacement for my Kan's. I recently heard some cheap (though modified!) Mission 760SE's on the end of my Nait-2, and ever since that day I can barely listen and enjoy my Kan's again.
But it's such a pain in the a.., ehh bottom
,
to find some small, suitable speakers for a Nait-2.
well, time will tell...
Keep us informed of your future speaker upgrades.
Best regards,
Alco
Posted on: 29 December 2002 by Alco
Hi Hendrik,
Rinsma cable is a special cable from Rinsma HiFi in Holland. (
www.rinsmahifi.nl)
He also used Naim's own Naca5 with Naim gear, in his store for many years. Now he's using 2 kinds of 'home-made' cable. Only one of these cable's fit Naim gear very well. It's only 4,50 euro a meter!
Compared to Nac-a5 it is (first of all) way more flexible! Also, I found the sound is a little more open and detailed, then the nac-a5.
regards,
Alco
Posted on: 29 December 2002 by NB
I once added a pair of Linn Sara 9's on the end of a Phillips CD player and Naim 42-5/110. This was against the advice of many people who said that this would sound awful. The linn's were far too good for this set up.
Hopwever when I got the speakers home and they had warmed up the sound was fantastic. It threw the source first theory out the window but it worked and I enjoyed it.
There may be many people who wouldn't have enjoyed my system but who cares I liked it and thats all that counts.
Happy new year
NB
Posted on: 29 December 2002 by Bas V
Hi Herm and others!
I haven't tried the Mozarts, as the dealer said these are more difficult to place! He uses the Beethovens in his own home and has just moved. The speaker works great in both rooms, one was as small as mine, so that sounds promising. If I am seriously interested, they'll come by and we can demo a few pairs in my own room. The shop btw is "De Hifi Shop (or Studio?)" in Beek-Ubbergen.
A very good 2003 to y'all too!
Posted on: 31 December 2002 by andrew mcmullins
I used to be one of those people with an LP-12 (I won't bore anyone with the exact spec in part because I can't remember it). I had a break-in and someone took a dislike to it and hit it with something heavy and sharp. Anyway this was 1992 and I didn't think I'd be able to get records so I switched to CD.
Okay enough prattle ...
My observations have been that with vinyl then I got more music by going source first.
Since then with a CD player I have found that being more balanced has helped.
Not sure if this is general or just what has happened.
Andrew
Posted on: 05 January 2003 by NB
Check out the new Sonus Faber Auditor's as reviewed in this months Hi Fi News.
Worth an audition at least.
NB
