Upgrades '02
Posted by: redeye on 26 December 2002
Please list your most significant improvement of the last year.
What you had...what you acquired and how well it blew your hair back
Mine was definitely a CDX (the first Cd player I've owned that doesn't make me feel like attacking it with a baseball bat on a regular basis)
Happy New Year btw
redeye
What you had...what you acquired and how well it blew your hair back
Mine was definitely a CDX (the first Cd player I've owned that doesn't make me feel like attacking it with a baseball bat on a regular basis)
Happy New Year btw
redeye
Even after upgrade, I am still in lower Naim area, but I am very happy with it and I have finished my primary goal which is to have all Naim system.
Went from: Arcam Alpha 8 cdp/Kimber PBJ/Nait2/Kimber 8TC/Epos ES12
To: CD5/Nait2/all Naim cables/Intro2
By the way, I have waited 5 years to hear a Naim cdp
I have also break a limit of 1000 CDs
, if we can count this as an upgrade.
In next year I plan to go for a Naim pre/power.
Ozren
Went from: Arcam Alpha 8 cdp/Kimber PBJ/Nait2/Kimber 8TC/Epos ES12
To: CD5/Nait2/all Naim cables/Intro2
By the way, I have waited 5 years to hear a Naim cdp
I have also break a limit of 1000 CDs
, if we can count this as an upgrade.In next year I plan to go for a Naim pre/power.
Ozren
Most impressive upgrade,
Went from:
all the old Naim stuff;
CDX,102,82,52,140,180,250,XPS,SC,HI,NAPSC,SBL
to:
all the new Naim stuff.
CDX2,202,282,252,200,250,300,XPS2,SC2,HI2,NAPSC2,SL2.
Most impressive Naim products of the year 02 (IMO):
552, 300, SL2, CDX2, AV2 (in descending order).
Curious, Naim has brought a lot of "2" models in 2002. Will they continue: CDS3,....
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Went from:
all the old Naim stuff;
CDX,102,82,52,140,180,250,XPS,SC,HI,NAPSC,SBL
to:
all the new Naim stuff.
CDX2,202,282,252,200,250,300,XPS2,SC2,HI2,NAPSC2,SL2.
Most impressive Naim products of the year 02 (IMO):
552, 300, SL2, CDX2, AV2 (in descending order).
Curious, Naim has brought a lot of "2" models in 2002. Will they continue: CDS3,....
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
My biggest improvement in 2002 was the XPS for my CDX.
For 2003 its going to be a whole new system,
CDX2/XPS 252/Super/300
with perhaps a pair of SL2's
Happy new year.
NB
For 2003 its going to be a whole new system,
CDX2/XPS 252/Super/300
with perhaps a pair of SL2's
Happy new year.
NB
2002 was a very good year for me:
went from CD3.5/92/Hicap/180
to CDS2/82/2*Hicap/180
Biggest improvment?
Dedicated spur installation!!!!!
JM
went from CD3.5/92/Hicap/180
to CDS2/82/2*Hicap/180
Biggest improvment?
Dedicated spur installation!!!!!
JM
quote:
Originally posted by naim de plume:
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderbird 2:
Wadia 861/2 Nap 500/B+W 801's
Thunderbird 2,
I tried to email you, but my email is bouncing
(and yep I deleted _no_spam
I'd be interested to hear what other CD players
you auditioned (the Levinson 390S???). The
Wadia is on my list of players to audition
(but at the moment my dealer does not have
a demo unit).
Naim De Plume,
Have to admit, the Wadia I didn't choose by choice, but by accident, My Brother (Tone from HFC) keep harping on how close this Wadia was to a Turntable, and compared to a CDS2 has so much more detail and music and more analogue sounding, So I allowed him his 5 mins of humour, and what a surprise I got, boy this Wadia (American as well) this thing boogies and plays a good tune, with all those so called roundie things that are mentioned in darkened rooms. plus a digital pre-amp as well, saves money on a very overpriced 552 (IMMHO), now before Ron T. cries foul, I do like the Naim sound very much, hence the Nap 500's and have not yet found another amplifier that gives me 'That sound', but the Wada 861 is just so much better than the CDS2 every where, I also purchased the said Wadia used for £4500 gbp saving a good deal of money into the bargin. A used CDS2+XPS around £3500-£4000 plus a 52+S/cap another £2500ish, I sold my cdp+52 which funded the Wadia and went some way towards the purchase of the first Nap 500 also used £7k.
Ron, no need to bite sir, you are along the right lines on the musical front, the DBL's are great for outdoor events and Barmitzfers, but for accuracy and detail and overall ability to communicate the music, I found limiting, hence the 801's but speakers are personal, so one mans meat is another man's poision.The change was not for volume levels but for much better musical togetherness and exspression.Both sets of speakers are quite large so size and approval factor was not an issue.
Going fully active on the B+W 801's you would have thought would be truely great, humm I found the sound way too bright and overpowering, although seriously dynamic and powerful.
Mono blocking proved for me the better option, with a better balance of sound, much better Tonal control and more defined stage and image, may not be that important to a lot of fellows, but it has a bearing for me.
Next up is installing a modified power supply assembly and mains isolation circuity to improve matters further, after having a demostration of my brothers amplification and it's dramatic effects on my sound system (but not quite the Naim sound) I'm going to let him loose with the 500's, though I must point out he has already 'Helped along' other pieces of audio equipment (to great effect I might add, smart arse)in my main system, so when the transformers are done I will report on his progress.
Sorry to be long winded, but Christmas does take it out of you. Thank you for the replies.
Cheers David
Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Toolsie:
quote:
Next up is installing a modified power supply assembly and mains isolation circuity to improve matters further, after having a demostration of my brothers amplification and it's dramatic effects on my sound system (but not quite the Naim sound) I'm going to let him loose with the 500's, though I must point out he has already 'Helped along' other pieces of audio equipment (to great effect I might add, smart arse)in my main system, so when the transformers are done I will report on his progress.
Interesting, interesting.... are these mains fixes at the A/C level or within the 500PS itself? If you are monoblocking the 500s, then fully half the regulators in the 500PS are not doing anything apart from creating spurious noise, and disabling them somehow may be of some utility.
I have tried in my system using a 1500VA 1:1 transformer (aka isolation transformer) but found it only to be transparent, i.e. did not change the sound for either better or for worse. I tried this with only source level components (CD player PS, 52s supercap and Snaxos Supercap) as well as allowing the brace of 135s to juice off it. I do however have a dedicated 75 Amp breakers on a dedicated spur, with dedicated ground, so mains quality may not be that much of an issue.
I can understand how other speakers may be more enticing and emotional than the DBLs. Although I do observe that when the system improves, the DBLs have the ability to sound small when needed to. With lesser balanced systems the DBLs can make small, intimate recordings into overly large Pan-O-Rama ones. But I am yet to hear them carve out an absolutely hologramic soundstage with every thread anchored in space, which the Sonus Faber Extremas did with consumate ease and beauty. The DBLs also seem to be more transparent to the odious colorations of the 52 and 135s- especially the latter. When you said you tried the B&W active, did you rather mean passively bi-amped into its passive xover, or did you have a Snaxo inline?
I certainly acknowlege that the CDS2 is not the ne plus ultra in players. I have a custom built player with 24 bit innards that reveals the CDS2 to be quite lacking in absolute top end extension and more than a little rolled off in microdetails.It also has a more fully extended, but not as tuneful LF end. Yet the CDS2 sounds supremely balanced in a very poised and unflappable way, whereas the other player seems to subliminly trip over its ruthlessly detailed presentation. I expect the CDS3 and CD555 to improve on the CDS2 in subjective bandwidth and microdynamics.
I am yet to audition the XPS2, that probably remedies some of these shortcomings.
Every stereo amp I know performs better as a monoblock (i.e. with only one channel driven without any sort of channel bridging).. the NAP250 so configured in the '125' format is much closer to a 135 than a 250. As hallowed as the NAP500 may be, I am sure that this too works better when asked to work less. The remark I made about having DBLs driven with six NAP500s was not really a bite..... I hope that somebody out there tries it and reports how it fares as compared to a three pack 500 system. I expect that will happen in Hong Kong or Singapore a long time before it happens stateside. If your B&W can be passively biamped (or even passively triamped), there is no reason why you too could not gainfully employ the services of 4, or even 6 NAP500s.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Ron,
Thanks you for the reply sir, very intresting.
First, yes have tried the 801's Tri-amped with 3 Nap 500's, with 'Custom built' Digital Time aligned/x/overs/indepentant level adjustment units/ both passively and actively (6 135's)
Similar to the TACT 2.2 unit, but this proved very difficult to get right, and when finshed produced the most wonderful HIFI sound I heard at that cash threshold!!!! but I'm afraid Muisc was not a that the top of the output tree.
The modifications (Tone) has preformed are specialy constructed Torriod 'Style' Transformers, to his spec, with a 'Trick' mains isolation device ( Really cannot say to much as patent is just about through I think, although not his, I know) all this performed INSIDE his ampilifer case and the sound it gives is just ............ I've seen too many silly words used to describe great things, use your own thoughts along the lines of 'Jaw-Dropping'
.Speakers again the DBL's arn't bad by any means, and I was looking for something a little different, and settled on the 801's (still pretty big though) I felt they gave the 'Extra's' I was looking for thats all.
CD players, again very personal If you like the Naim sound of their cdp's, your have to look long and hard to find something that's does the 'Naim thing' and then improve on it, I have an Accuphase as well, which is very good as well but not quite in the same league as the Wadia (for me), although I have to admit Tony's Wadia is highly modified and it sounds 'Different' to mine, if I say 'better' I'll never hear the last of it, but He's 'Re-arranged' My other Brother's (Lyndon's)to serious effect, quite something else but it is all down to your own personal taste, and I'm quite sure we differ in lots of ways, except the most fundemental one. it must play MUSIC Thank you Ron.
Cheers David
Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul
Ron,
Have just noticed the last section of your post sir, Humm I feel 4 or 6 Nap 500 may be a touch over the top. The mods (If I Let him) will be on the understanding that the Stock boxes are utilised only, so that may limit him some what.
But Having had his amplifier in the system in place of the 2 Nap 500's I can only say that I hope the mods works as well because the 500's realy do struggle to keep in it's wake!!! and I'm not just talking outright power here. 
Cheers David
Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul
Have just noticed the last section of your post sir, Humm I feel 4 or 6 Nap 500 may be a touch over the top
. The mods (If I Let him) will be on the understanding that the Stock boxes are utilised only, so that may limit him some what.But Having had his amplifier in the system in place of the 2 Nap 500's I can only say that I hope the mods works as well
because the 500's realy do struggle to keep in it's wake!!! and I'm not just talking outright power here. Cheers David
Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Toolsie:
quote:
First, yes have tried the 801's Tri-amped with 3 Nap 500's, with 'Custom built' Digital Time aligned/x/overs/indepentant level adjustment units/ both passively and actively (6 135's)
I'm not sure how you used the pre-amp in the Wadia CD player to drive 3 NAP500 passively. I had a D/A converter box once that had both fixed and adjustable level outputs (via a potientiometer). By FAR the best sound was using the fixed outputs through an external preamp, instead of trying to drive the power amps directly from the variable output. Could it be that the failure to get the passive 3x500 to gel musically was the inability of the the device upstream? A Supercap for instance has 3 stereo amp-level outputs, and can drive them simulataneously very well. I have had limited experience of multi-amping (all through the Supercaps multiple outputs) with great success.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Ron,
Fair question sir, The Wadia (set at 100 max) feeding the the X/over/Alignment/level adjuster (which had remote a volume control on) feeding the 500's actively (3 times 2 channels), but Every active system I've heard sounds so Bright and in one's face, that it has put me off totaly.
Have also used a Spectral Pre-amp with specialy made 3 way 'Y' lead (passively) and still pretty much the same, although less detail and and more grain (cable?).
The one point at which I like, is the lack of 'Large amounts of boxes' the Wadia/500's 3 boxes in total (5 if you include the psu's) and a pair of speakers, I have no TT in this system so I don't require a seperate pre-amp.
I also have a take on this Pre-amp thereoy (taken from my Brother).NO matter how good the pre-amp £25K GBP in some cases, and the cables between £10k,(Martain uses) it is going to give a certain 'Sound' or colouration?(A great one yes, but colouration all the same) yes, now weather you like that colouration is down to the person who is listening? but is it worth that XYZ in cold hard cash stakes is another matter?
Personaly I am quite happy with the Wadia's Pre-amp even when compared to the astronomicaly priced 552, but this is my choice, others won't be happy until they have a 552 sat in the row of boxes with all the others (Matching).There is enough room inside the 500's to make them into the amps they should have been, so maybe I won't need the six you suggest Ron, but do you have/use 500's as well sir?, would be interested in your thoughts too?
But at the moment, it sounds pretty good to me, although a little 'Grunt' would not go amiss.
Cheers David
Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul