the + and - of things

No. just your ears.

malcolm

Perhaps you may need to do what Naim recommend more frequently i.e.unplug/re-plug all connections once every six months or so to give them a clean.Then cable errors may be picked up before you get to a top flight system.Bit late now,I know

Simon

I can't believe that you have been listening to out of phase speakers for years!
The effect isn't subtle.

malcolm

No offence,but I find it hard to belive that you have spent a large amount of wedge on your hifi to listen to it with speakers out of phase.

Cheers,
Paul

Big ears
If you are saying that your speakers were previously out of phase all I can say is your ears can't be that big! Out of phase speakers have NO bass.

Hehe. I've done a similar thing with a pair of Rega Naos in my home theater. The right speaker's tweeter was disconnected completely, but I didn't notice for months because I didn't watch TV/movies much and, when I did, the system was set to Dolby ProLogic, so most of the content was piped through the center channel anyway.

I didn't notice the missing tweeter until I accidentally hit the "test tone" button on the preamp, which caused a pink noise signal to pan among all the channels.

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I also managed to invert the polarity on a tweeter when I (briefly) ran an active SBL setup. This was harder to track down because the woofers were still in-phase so bass was very present.

In fact, on first listen I thought the system sounded very round-earth, as some high-frequency stuff (cymbals and the like) sounded as if they were behind me.

E.

I would like to add there is another layer of error which can occur though it is not at all obvious.

I discovered one of my speakers had the tweeter and woofer wiring swapped to opposite terminals.

I just posted an e-mail about it so being lazy goto this thread if you are interested in more detail

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=1661991416

GEOFFP

probably explains why i have changed my speakers three times last year and yes i do feel like a bit of a *** but when you by something new i thought that the reduction in sound quality from the dem was just down to burn in period etc. and also i do place all my trust in the dealer.

Cheers Gary

If your dealer instaled your system at your home(which they should have)then they should be shot.I think you should have a top of the range system by way of compension.

Cheers,
Paul.

Compensation!

Big Ears

Your cables did'nt come from Audio Excellence did they?? I had exactly the same thing when i upgraded to Naim at Christmas. Didnt have anything to compare to and the new naim kit sounded generally so much better than the Japanese kit i was used to that i just accepted the reduction in bass. It was only a chance conversation with another dealer who mentioed Audio excellences inability to wire NACA5 cable correctly that made me go home and check my connectors, which were wired wrong. 20 minutes later after doing the job properly myself and hey presto the bass was back and the whole thing sounded even better than before. I was just lucky to have discovered this after only having the kit 1 month as i was also looking at changing my speakers, not something i have to do now.

Craig

As a musician I am very aware that many folk do not ‘hear’. Do you know that 1 in 4 people do not notice a wrong note being played? That is why the majority of people cannot sing in tune (Karaoke has a lot to answer for). In Big Ears defence many folk accept a sound for what it is and don’t question it but surely this highlights the need for having a friend around for a check cum tweaking session etc. etc. This is something that I have done for years for even I (I am a musician) need help to fine tune my system even if it’s that friend does the changes and I do the listening. Don’t take it too bad Big Ears. I suggest you 1st do a thorough check and then sit down to listen to a massive upgrade 2nd (that surely will now be presented to you) and then pop along to your dealer and give him a second to non telling off (you don’t need to be abusive but!).

quote:

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As a musician I am very aware that many folk do not ‘hear’. Do you know that 1 in 4 people do not notice a wrong note being played?

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well that explains the success of Victoria Beckham...

Yup! and the other three, Rod Stewert, and the other 7 or 8 hundred who I can't bother to name. Incidentally the manufacturers of studio auto-tuners are making a fortune at the moment!

We once had a set of Monitor Audio 352 speakers that just didn't make sense. They sounded out of phase whatever we did. Either the treble was very phasey, or there was no bass. On opening them up we found that one of the tweeters was out of phase! These were straight from the manufacturers, but these things do happen. I could well understand someone unfamiliar with all this thinking they were OK.

Noel.

I didn't mean to sound so disparaging Big Ears. I've often had brief periods of doubt about phasing after a system dismantle, and couldn't live without my test LPs and CDs. Perhaps a test CD for future reference?

malcolm

Checked my leads last night and the line with Naim Audio written down it is terminated with the negative plugs. Presumably if cables are directional and the +/- are signal and return conductors (Are they?) the sound from my system should improve if I reverse the cables + to - and - to + at both ends.

I'll try it and see and report back as soon as I have an evening in on my own. My partner takes the piss if I try anything like that when shes around. You should have seen her face as I fixed Michell Tenderfeet to our lovely new Ikea cabinet the other week.

Jonathan

Chaps, this is all getting a bit out of hand. The + terminal (red) at the amplifier connects to the + terminal (red) at the speaker, and the - terminal (black) at the amplifier connects to the - terminal (black) at the speaker. Use any bit of wire you choose to do the connecting but these rules apply.

If you are using NACA5 wire and believe in voodoo, the arrows point to the speakers.

That's it, no further complications required.

malcolm

I said no further complications REQUIRED. I didn't say they weren't possible

malcolm