Apple & PC wireless on Airport?

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Bennett:
Apple have already said that they will prevent OSX from running on a 'bog standard' windows PC.

I suspect they mean that they'll stop OSX being licensed for normal PC's. Unless they deliberately use proprietry hardware elements then it might be difficult to enforce any other way.

There are stories that leaked versions of the Intel version of OSX are already running on PC's.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:
I suspect they mean that they'll stop OSX being licensed for normal PC's. Unless they deliberately use proprietry hardware elements then it might be difficult to enforce any other way.

That's exactly what they are saying. You'll only be able to run OSX with Apple's equivalent of a 'Bios'.

quote:

There are stories that leaked versions of the Intel version of OSX are already running on PC's.

The developer intel Macs are bog standard PCs witout the Apple 'bios'. I suspect Apple allowed the hack to give windows users a 'taste' of OSX. Allowing OSX to run on any old PC would mean the death of Apple - they make money from hardware, not OSX.

Quite a useful faq is here.

Regards

Stephen

quote:

That's exactly what they are saying. You'll only be able to run OSX with Apple's equivalent of a 'Bios'.

Creating and flashing a PC motherboard bios to allow OSX to run should be no problem at all. Even if the motherboards are deliberaty designed to be very different I bet it won't take someone long to get round that, especially as it does appear that Apple plan to use standard Intel processors and their supporting chipsets.

As for giving Windows users a taste of OSX I suspect you'll find that it might well appeal more to those considering other PC unix flavours such as Linux. From the faq it would appear that Apple are planning to rely more on legal than technical means for keeping control of the OS. I wonder if that'll lead to any anti-trust cases?

One long term area of interest will be that once OSX can be run on a standard PC (and it most likely will) then it'll be easier & cheaper for virus writers to have machines to use as a development environment to attack OSX.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:
From the faq it would appear that Apple are planning to rely more on legal than technical means for keeping control of the OS. I wonder if that'll lead to any anti-trust cases?

From what I've read it's a 2 pronged approach. There will be some Apple hardware in there that won't be 'just burn-able' - a bit like the old 6800 Apple Bios perhaps? It would be a disaster for Apple if OSX could run on everyday PCs. You'd have hardware problems and crashes. Apple would lose its buisiness overnight.

quote:

One long term area of interest will be that once OSX can be run on a standard PC (and it most likely will) then it'll be easier & cheaper for virus writers to have machines to use as a development environment to attack OSX.

As Linux isn't a hotbed of virii, I'm not sure that will happen. But as I said, I doubt that you'll see OSX (Apple variety anyhow) on PC boxes. I just can't see Apple throwing it all away that easily.

I think a lot of this is wishful thinking with people saying 'I can get a Mac cheap now!'

Regards

Stephen

Sounds like Apple are planning to include a hardware dongle onto the motherboards which will control whether OSX can be installed or not.

That could be defeated in several ways, but most likely would be for hackers to modify the OSX install to not require the dongle, or to write some type of bootstrap to emulate its presence.

The dongle method would stop the majority from running OSX on a vanilla PC though.

I think so.

Apple VP says Mac OS X won't run on other PCs

Not all dongles have been cracked. The current Logic Pro dongle hasn't been. But I suppose that could be due to the low number of users, relativly speaking.

Regards

Stephen

quote:

It would be a disaster for Apple if OSX could run on everyday PCs. You'd have hardware problems and crashes.

That would depend on how it was done. In the early days of Windows NT (which was pretty stable as a desktop environment) Microsoft used to certify each hardware configuration for use with that OS.

The difficulty with PC's (on the hardware side at least) is the sheer volume of peripherals which have to be supported. This leads to an open environment for adding peripherals with sometimes variable quality results - graphics device drivers being a good example.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:

That would depend on how it was done. .

However it was done, the things you mention would give OSX the same reputation as windows. Another disaster! Apple just saying 'you must run OSX on this combination' just wouldn't work. People would run it on any old tat - like windows!


Regards

Stephen

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Bennett:
Not all dongles have been cracked.

Usually it's not a case of cracking the dongle but of modifying the software so it's not necessary. The chances of something as popular as OSX not being cracked is about zero.

Another interesting issue, which we're also seeing with Windows, is whether the Linux releases will start to code to allow OSX programs to install and run on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Bennett:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:

That would depend on how it was done. .

However it was done, the things you mention would give OSX the same reputation as windows. Another disaster!

I bet Steve Jobs would rather like a disaster as financially successful as Windows has been. Don't forget that all these people are money grabbing bastards...

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:
[Usually it's not a case of cracking the dongle but of modifying the software so it's not necessary. The chances of something as popular as OSX not being cracked is about zero.

.

You know what I meant. Working Logic cracks, of whatever type, don't exist. Why couldn't Apple use some seeded random number 128 bit encryption checking for the dongle every few minutes? I'm sure there are ways to make OSX secure.

Regards

Stephen

At one time I was close to a group of people certifying PCs to run an OS - it was not unusual for the incoming PCs to be not even capable of fully running DOS let alone a more complex OS.

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Bennett:
You know what I meant. Working Logic cracks, of whatever type, don't exist. Why couldn't Apple use some seeded random number 128 bit encryption checking for the dongle every few minutes?

That's exactly the sort of test which is easiest to defeat usually - generally by means of a binary hack to the OS itself so that when the test takes place the answer is always treated as ok.

I've seen similar hacks widely available to remove the activation requirement from the Windows XP OS.

Unless Apple's developers are a lot cleverer than the hackers out there (which is unlikely) it'll be cracked, and probably very quickly after it's released. It probably won't matter much commercially though.

quote:

Originally posted by Derek Wright:
At one time I was close to a group of people certifying PCs to run an OS - it was not unusual for the incoming PCs to be not even capable of fully running DOS let alone a more complex OS.

That Windows XP is able to run on just about anything is one of it's strengths but also a key weakness.

I've had Windows XP running on machines from machines as old as original P2's with no problem, but coding to allow for such old hardware has a number of downsides.

Considering the subject change in this thread I feel free to ask this question as well:

Can anyone here confirm the "horizontal line" problem with the display of the 15'' Powerbook G4, as mentioned by many people on the forum on apple.com? The stories suggest there's something wrong with Apple's quality control...

Martijn

I do not have a horizontal line on the display of my 15" Powerbook that is 5 months old.

Martijn, apple are one of a very few manufacturers that actually have these problems listed on their own site. The thing is, yes there will be a number of people with an issue, who naturally will goto the apple support site for answers, before you know it apparently every powerbook or monitor or what ever is effected.

For sure there will be problems for some, it should not effect your decision to purchase a mac. Every computer manufacturer will have issues, just no discussion board to show it on.

There was an issue with 23 inch monitors, showing brighter edges or something. My god that got out of hand. In order to see the problem people had to have the monitor on a certain colour all over. It got out of hand. Those with a slightly more level perspective carried on regardless. For most it turned out to be a coloursync software problem which got fixed. I never saw this issue on my 23 inch, and neither does my wifes mum have a line on her 15 inch powerbook (the bitch bought one two weeks after I got my iBook!)

As for OSX running on PCs. Well they are doing it right now, a little look around any torrent site will bring up almost nightly builds of OSX for windows, all taken from the original leek from a mac developer somewhere. They have really got this thing down, its working with a variety of PC graphics cards and all sorts, the only downside is right now there are no applications that have been converted for the intel OSX, so its broadly speaking pointless right now.

I have no idea what apple will do about protecting OSX, the question is would they die if the hardware side stopped? Baring in mind a good amount of sales comes from iPods and not computers, plus they have a lot of software to run on OSX, especially in professional fields such as Motion and Aperture. In other words, what if they went software ala Microsoft?

OK guys, thanks for the reassurance. I will take a look myself in some Apple centers this or next week.

Martijn