System:
CDS1
82/Hicap
140
Intros Mk1
All (including speakers) on Mana
I've just bought a pair of second hand SBLs to replace the Intros. Although this is the first time I've set these speakers up, the instructions from both the vendor and the Naim instruction book seemed consistent and clear.
I have sited them up against the wall (where the Intros were). Everything is levelled and tightened. No wobbles. The integrity and isolation of the sealant on both sides of the gasket seems fine.
So why don't they sound great? The top end has opened up with more detail and pressence, but the lower end is only marginally better - not giving me the depth and texture that I expected against what I'm used to with the Intros.
(Only?) Two possible reasons:
1. Although the silicone seal seems OK (checked with torch), I'm not completely sure that the spikes are taking all the weight. I can't see a gap between spike and cabinet and there's no give when pushing down, but this seems to be a critical element of the setup procedure. The front spikes on one speaker seem slightly more embedded into the aluminium pads than their rear counterparts.
I suppose the question I have is just how far out do I have to be to affect the sound significantly?
2. The 140 (which in time will be upgraded to 250) is just not up to the job of showing me how much better the SBLs are vs Intros.
Does this seem a possibility?
Any other factors I should consider?
Grateful for your thoughts.
Chris
Posted on: 30 October 2001 by Ade Archer
Dave,
Funnily enough, yesterday I decided to experiment with increasing the gap between the speakers (they are either side of a chimney breast which houses my system) as I suspected they may be too close to the chimney breast, and I have indeed noticed an improvement. They are now 8 feet from tweeter to tweeter, I only moved them a couple of inches each. My concern had been that I would end up with a 'hole' in the middle of the music, but it hasn't been the case. It would obviously depend on your room dimensions 7 feet suits Mick, 8 feet suits me, so I'd start in that range initially.
I'm not completely au fait with these hifi terms, but I have improved what I would term soundstage by moving them slightly apart. Imaging, as I imagine it, is not a strong Naim trait, but then again that's just how I interpret those terms.
Tomorrow, I'm going to give Mick's suggestion of bringing them out a couple of inches a try.
Cheers
Ade
Posted on: 30 October 2001 by Justin
The timing of this thread is interesting (from my perspective) because I've just been fiddling a bit with the set-up of my SBL's as well.
Previously, my biggest complaint was the speaker's inability to project the midrange out and in front of the speakers. It always seemed locked in the cabinets.
Then I had the bright idea of putting 3/4 inch laminated MDF boards under each speaker, which improved things dramatically. Previously they were sitting on concrete through a layer of "dense" carpet and pad. The boards made a big difference. Then I cut holes in the carpet so the spikes could make contact with the floor, and this has tightened things up a bit, though at the cost (perhaps) of a few herts down low.
The problem with cutting holes in the carpet is that i can't get the speakers as far back against the wall as when they are on the boards (with the boards in place, I can get them to touch, if I like-though the cables get in the way). It's the tack strip that gets in the way.
Given all of this, I'm seriously considering a set of the mana stands, but even then, I may not be able to get them as close as I like.
For what it's worth, I pulled my SBL's out from the wall 6 inches and perceived a rather large improvement. Then several months later a friedn came over and said "No wonder you're having trouble, you need to put those against the wall". So I did. And, you know what; it sounded better. Go figure. I wonder if the Mana's will also induce this kind of back and forth(ness).
Judd
Posted on: 02 November 2001 by Jonathan Gorse
Mick,
I'm interested in what improved when you pulled the SBL's out? Did it increase or reduce bass power (my only slight criticism of them)
Thanks,
Jonathan
(Avoiding moving anything unless I'm really convinced - especially 55lb of SBL!)
Posted on: 04 November 2001 by Mick P
Jonathan
Sorry for the delayed response...I just plain forgot about this thread.
Like you, I am not keen on moving the SBL's about because of risk tothe spikes and alloy pads etc.
When Simon came to install the Supercap a few months ago, he gave my system an examination.
My SBL's were about 2" out from the wall with a fireplace between them.
The fireplace distorted the sound and basically he suggested moving the speakers out, so as they were just in front of the fireplace.
I did this a few weeks later and the biggest improvement was in soundstage. Before the move, the sound seemed to come out of the speakers, whereas now it seems to fill the room and the speakers seem almost to disappear.
The bass did improve especially on tracks such as take 5 (Dave Brubeck)and soundtrack of Braveheart.
If its any comfort, I resealed one of the SBL's yesterday because I wanted to rip it apart to study the state of the aluminium pads and they were perfect, so gentle moving around is ok.
It takes only 5 mins to move them out....try it and let us know how you found it. Also its easier to adjust the floor spikes when it's out from the wall.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 06 November 2001 by Chrisp
First I don't like it
Then I do
Last time I wasn't happy
Now it's getting better...
What does this mean?
Could it be that the SBLs need to warm up - even though they're used (5 years old)?
Now, to most Naimiacs the need to warm our equipment up is well understood, but speakers as well? Given the mechanical nature of them, I assumed that warm up time was minimal. But the sound has improved over a twoish week period. I certainly didn't expect that. Perhaps my silcone needs to run in!
I still think that the 140 is having a hard time, but at least the sound is balancing out. I now don't feel the need to recommission the Intros!
Mick - I was interested in your fireplace set up, as my SBLs are either side of a piano (an upright in black lacquer - I had aspirations of getting same finish SBLs, but never found them...). No doubt Peter Belt would have strongly disapproved (no musical instuments in same room stuff), but it is the music room after all.
I've tried pulling them out but bass suffers. Given that they were specifically designed to operate up against a wall, it is hard to see that they sound better further out. Are they being reinforced (sound wise) by the fireplace itself I wonder?
Chris
Still half looking (hint hint) for a 250... but not as hard as before.
