Carbon Footprint of a Packet of Crisps.

Absolutely, provide the information and let the consumer decide. It would be rather embarrassing for Prius owners though...

Is 106 grams a lot?
Is it average for a packet of crisps or lower than other producers?
Is it the cost to produce or the cost to consume?
Is there a standard way of measuring that can be used by all crisp producers?

Nigel

What is the volume of 106g CO2 at atmospheric pressure? They must use bloody big crisp packets.

A new Seat Ibiza TDi Eco thingy produces approximately 99g of CO2 per kilometre.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Tony Lockhart:
A new Seat Ibiza TDi Eco thingy produces approximately 99g of CO2 per kilometre.

Is that "in use"?
What is the total CO2 per kilometre produced over average life (includes production)?

Yes, that's in use based only on the fuel being burned.
I remember reading a few years ago that the average car produces three times more pollution during manufacture than it does during its useful life. So whoever it is on the forum that still drives a trusty old Volvo is one of the greenest car users here!

Tony

quote:

So whoever it is on the forum that still drives a trusty old Volvo is one of the greenest car users here!

That would be me! At least till August when the old car goes.

quote:

Is 106 grams a lot?
Is it average for a packet of crisps or lower than other producers?
Is it the cost to produce or the cost to consume?
Is there a standard way of measuring that can be used by all crisp producers?

I have no idea how this level compares with other manufacturers' packs, as I have not seen any other manufacturer actual put a figure for it on their packaging.

Though not stated explicitly, I think this figure of 106 grams of CO2 applies to the packet of 50 grams of crisp as packaged and delivered to the shop or wholesaler.

I imagine it is the level of emissions to produce, and also consume except for the added level of emissions taken to get the crisps to where you eat them.

I imagine the assistance of the Carbon Trust would guarantee fairness, but I do not think there is standard for this yet. There certainly should be.

For all consumer products in fact.

George

Dear All,

In 1982 i worked in a crisp factory for 8 weeks cutting up spuds.

This was a heavy industry environment with Boilers, dryers, fryers, and then again dryers followed by packing with plastic bags.

So this was a very heavy user of energy and all for a piece of thin tasteless fried potatoe with added synthetic flavouring for your increased enjoyment and pleasure.

manufactured food in an industrial environment is a messy dirty process.

regards David

I had assumed the figure of 106 gm included the CO2 breathed out by the workforce used in the production and delivery process, including marketting and other overheads. I also assumed it included the CO2 breathed out by Fredrik consuming said product and the disposal effort involved in getting rid of the packet.

Pretty meaningless otherwise.

Now, one of my cars is a 20 year old Merc. Done 250,000 miles and still operates effortlessly. Its overall carbon footprint, energy footprint, financial footprint.........in fact probably ANY footprint other than it's physical footprint, must put all other forms of transport, including Tibeten Yaks, to shame.

Same applies to leaving my hifi on 24/7. Elecrical/electronic compoments do get stressed and fail with repeated on/off switching. I believe its something to do with surge currents and the warm-up/cool-down cycle.

Cheers

Don

Dear Don,

Two points taken in fun as your post seems to suggest! Considering I ran to the petrol station to fetch the crisps, I would imagine a slightly higher figure for CO2 in this instance!

Second one! My old Volvo 240 is nineteen and a half years old, and only done 129,000 miles, so if you twenty old Mercedes is greener than a Yak, then my oldie must be finer still. Perheps as greener than an ant!

More seriously perhaps, I think Naim electronics are rugged enough to survive ten, even twenty, years' worth of being turned off daily! And it is the conventional wisdom that a service is in order after ten years, so long before any possible issue with using the On/Off control kicks in!! This long lived characteristic, which itself is a very green feature, Naim pieces share with other high quality products, whether Hifi or not!

ATB from George

Fredrik

OK, most of it is in jest, and I certainly don't wish to offend, particularly thoughtful people such as your goodself....BUT

We haven't realy studied "sustainability" in any real depth yet.

I know one or two people at Cambridge who have "dabbled" as professors in sustainable engineering, and I have been to a few lectures by architects about "green" specifications. We have all seen Al Gore and his inconvenient truth and a few of us saw snippets of "the 11th Hour". Overall, however, we are just beginning to grasp the idea of sustainability.

The whole subject has been hi-jacked by politicians, whilst big business is close on their heels, all trying to make quick buck. We have got "Green", "environment", "greenhouse-gasses", "sustainability", "carbon footprint", "global warming", "over-popoulation", "windpower", "solarpower", "energy cisis", "finaite fosil-fuel".......it goes on and on......

They are all inter-related. But we don't really know the causes or the effects or how long things will/won't last. We don't have reliable equations. The input data is crap. the output data is.........well, "garbage in etc"

So, you will understand why I take the piss from time to time. Usually when people tell me I MUST do this or MUST do that to save the planet. But especially when the scientific evidence behind the MUST is of doubtful pedigree.

BTW, my car won't be ready for the scapheap for many more years, so I think on that score alone, it must beat yours. And I've had this one for over 12 years. BUT....

Just to keep you on your toes, we also have a 230TE estate in Atctic White with charcoal cloth trim, mainly used for carting stuff around and kids' stuff to/from university etc. August 1989, 130,000 miles, had it for 12 years, looks and drives like it came out of a main dealer's show room, new, yesterday. Probably good for another 20 years and another 130,000 miles at least. NOT for sale, just in case Adam is getting worried!

I always wanted a Ford, but could never afford one. Too many repair bills and too much depreciation. Sad really, to be stuck with Mercs for the past 25 years on environmental grounds.

Sympathetic murmerings welcome.........

cheers

Don

Dear Don,

I did not take your comment as taking the Mick. I know you take this seriously, and for once I have a view that academia has the potential to do some useful and intellectually sound work on sustainability. The great academic people in Universities have a unique chance to really contribute here, I think.

I hope this is seen and acted on as soon as possible.

I think the CO2 on the pack of crisps is an example in the real world of a company being painfully honest. I am sure the little gobbit of information on the pack will have been lost on most crisp eaters!

What you say about how cheap it is to run a really fine [if old] motor is true. I could not have afforded to run another vehicle than my old 240, because it is simply so well engineered that the repairs are minimal with basic sensible servicing done as recommended. Though I had no idea whether I would run the car very long, I had the cam-belt done last year [on the basis of six years - not sixty thousand miles - as recommended], but even that only cost £65 plus VAT.

People always say that I should chop for a Corsa, Metro, or Fiesta [you get the idea], and I comment that I could never afford the repairs! This is true. Those little cars may manage ten miles per gallon more than my old tank, but fuel is a small proportion of the cost of running an unreliable motor ... I am going to scrap her or at the least lay her off, moth-balled, in August. I cannot see any other way in my circumstances. The trains are terrible for getting round – for example the last Paddington train to Worcester leaves at just about the time of the interval of am evening concert – but with a bit of planning there are solutions which can be found, if not so convenient as the freedom of a car …

Thanks for your light of heart post earlier. We must not always be living in doom and gloom, though if it is thought about much, doom does seem the inevitable outcome, unless the current inertia on becoming "sustainable" in our habits is shifted.

ATB from George

On scrapping the old car, I should add that there is no reason to from the serviceability angle. There is no corrosion in the bodywork, and the engine never requires a top-up of oil between the change at about 5,000 miles. It runs like a sewing machine, and still will do forty mpg if driven with my customary respect, and light right foot. It is just that since I dropped using it to go top work it have only been used twice in the last two months. It has become redundant in a manner for me. Of course it would be easier to go to work in it, but removing it from the road deems like a good thing to do once I have fulfilled my last commitment to give someone a lift that is caused by the ill-fitting public transport system ... I suspect that moth-balling it may actually be the more environmentally friendly thing to do, as it could always be recommissioned at minimal effort should it become unavoidable in terms of getting to work.

Fredrik

DON'T mothball a car.

It needs to be USED to stay fit and healthy, just like you!

Using it, oils and greases all the little bits that need oiling. Oil seals in particular are prone to PERISH if they aren't flexed and oiled each day (or so).

Use the car to drive into the countryside and take some fresh air. Sod the environmental impact, YOU need to LIVE.

I recenetly gave a talk to some school children and asked them what the most basic things needed in our daily lives really are.

Their answers soon got past "money" (and the headmaster parried the "sex" suggestions). They initially settled on

water
shelter
food
sanitation/health

They then carefully added entertainment and transport.

The transport came from building paths through the jungle so that getting water and food was easier.

The entertainment came from "life has to be worth living"

I think they got it right right and probably put them in the right order of importance.

Cheers

Don