A Question About Israel
Posted by: dave brubeck on 31 May 2010
Are they allowed to do whatever they like?
Posted on: 08 June 2010 by Haim Ronen
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
I am not saying that kiling people is acceptable, but perhaps it is well to remember the history and context, to understand how such acts could actually happen - however horrible.
George
George,
That is exactly my point. We should not rush to condemn anyone without remembering our own history and sins.
There are a lot of similarities between the two stories; an imposed blockade, the military boarding the ships trying to break it, passengers challenging the military and the same outcome: some passengers dying others getting injured.
It is just a reminder that under very similar circumstances the British military did not behave any better (to put it mildly) than the Israeli navy of last week and it raises again the question wether you are measuring Israel against a standard that you yourselves had not achieve either.
Haim
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Mike-B
I think munch is about as close to sizing this up as most, despite some eloquent debating,
End of (statement) - if only - I wish.
But there is no answer
Polarised views reaching out to radical extremes on both sides ensure this won't go away any time soon & will without doubt outlive us all.
Israel will always do what it wants, even when its bankroll buddies in US say they are wrong - even if (if ever) the bankroll dried up. They survived the holocaust & have now alone built their "homeland", this has embodied them with a siege mentality & self sufficiency that is part of the national culture.
I will add that the fragmented Palestinians will also always do what they want. They had their lands taken from them by an invasion of north Europeans. Their forefathers lands were just taken - stolen - & are now towns, cities, kibbutz, farms. They are forced to live in other lands & no hope desert strips. These people have spend thousands of years being suppressed by someone or other. They also have long memories & are taught in the Qu'ran justice is an eye for an eye. (a law incidentally that came from the Hebrew (old testament) book of Moses)
A few things do not sit well in my mind:
Why (how) has a religion become a nation state (eluded to in previous posts)
Are the British as guilty as anyone in this through its part in the so called British Mandate under the League of Nations when they had responsibility for peacekeeping in the so called greater Palestine (Jordan etc) from 1917 to 1948.
It all goes back to 1917 when The Balfour Declaration - a formal statement by the British government - stating that
HM Gov favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people. In hindsight, what was planned to be a few thousand immigrants from the north, but after 1945 it turned into millions, spurred on by their religions devastation of WWII, and assumed they could & had the right to take what they wanted. The British caved in (maybe to easily) to overwhelming odds in both political & physical terms.
quote:No one is ever going to get the answer to this Question.
Israel will always do what it thinks is right. End of.
End of (statement) - if only - I wish.
But there is no answer
Polarised views reaching out to radical extremes on both sides ensure this won't go away any time soon & will without doubt outlive us all.
Israel will always do what it wants, even when its bankroll buddies in US say they are wrong - even if (if ever) the bankroll dried up. They survived the holocaust & have now alone built their "homeland", this has embodied them with a siege mentality & self sufficiency that is part of the national culture.
I will add that the fragmented Palestinians will also always do what they want. They had their lands taken from them by an invasion of north Europeans. Their forefathers lands were just taken - stolen - & are now towns, cities, kibbutz, farms. They are forced to live in other lands & no hope desert strips. These people have spend thousands of years being suppressed by someone or other. They also have long memories & are taught in the Qu'ran justice is an eye for an eye. (a law incidentally that came from the Hebrew (old testament) book of Moses)
A few things do not sit well in my mind:
Why (how) has a religion become a nation state (eluded to in previous posts)
Are the British as guilty as anyone in this through its part in the so called British Mandate under the League of Nations when they had responsibility for peacekeeping in the so called greater Palestine (Jordan etc) from 1917 to 1948.
It all goes back to 1917 when The Balfour Declaration - a formal statement by the British government - stating that
HM Gov favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people. In hindsight, what was planned to be a few thousand immigrants from the north, but after 1945 it turned into millions, spurred on by their religions devastation of WWII, and assumed they could & had the right to take what they wanted. The British caved in (maybe to easily) to overwhelming odds in both political & physical terms.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by lutyens
Haim
Your point is well made but................if it was wrong for the Exodus/Jews to suffer this then, then why oh why is it acceptable for Israel to it to someone else today?
I think so many of us find this point the most difficult to deal with. We have a race, in this case the Jews, who have suffered throughout history and yet they perpetrate similar suffering on others, in this case the palastinians. I am not trying to directly link the gaza strip to WW2, but ghettos in poland are very little different from ghettos in palastine.
Of course there are excuses from security, racism, etc, but the fact still seems to come down to someone doing something to another that they objected strongly being done to them.
Someone has to rise above all of this and if Israel cannot as the stronger physically and financially then the weaker remains with nothing to lose and will continue to bite.
atb
james
Your point is well made but................if it was wrong for the Exodus/Jews to suffer this then, then why oh why is it acceptable for Israel to it to someone else today?
I think so many of us find this point the most difficult to deal with. We have a race, in this case the Jews, who have suffered throughout history and yet they perpetrate similar suffering on others, in this case the palastinians. I am not trying to directly link the gaza strip to WW2, but ghettos in poland are very little different from ghettos in palastine.
Of course there are excuses from security, racism, etc, but the fact still seems to come down to someone doing something to another that they objected strongly being done to them.
Someone has to rise above all of this and if Israel cannot as the stronger physically and financially then the weaker remains with nothing to lose and will continue to bite.
atb
james
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by powerbench1
The sad thing about history there is and always been suffering and injustice. Every nation-state endures for its own survival. It's justification for existation based on mores suited to them and that might be evil to us or vise versa. Iran, Afghanistan and the US have vastly different cultures, history and political viewpoints. Its all a matter of survival and exploitation sad to say. Israel is another player.
Since the beginning of time, every society on this planet sooner or later been overrun or assimilated by someone. Perhaps the Medes or the Persians also believed in the own autonomy as we do. Israel is no different and if I was an Israeli I might be able to quickly justify my own nations actions based on my own survival.
I think there is little equity in human relations. Sooner or later the Strongest do survive and the weak loose. We haven't changed in the thousands of years although we think we have with technology and the information we have access to. We are not wiser just more informed.
We still fly planes into building and blow the crab out of each other if you cross our socio-political or ideological boundaries. You might be lucky to have a strong ally like the US who might do it (the blowing up) for you. Long live PAX Americana!
There is no global consciousness. It's still a dog eat dog world. It all depends on which side of the fence you sit, ....and of course who has the bigger teeth.
Since the beginning of time, every society on this planet sooner or later been overrun or assimilated by someone. Perhaps the Medes or the Persians also believed in the own autonomy as we do. Israel is no different and if I was an Israeli I might be able to quickly justify my own nations actions based on my own survival.
I think there is little equity in human relations. Sooner or later the Strongest do survive and the weak loose. We haven't changed in the thousands of years although we think we have with technology and the information we have access to. We are not wiser just more informed.
We still fly planes into building and blow the crab out of each other if you cross our socio-political or ideological boundaries. You might be lucky to have a strong ally like the US who might do it (the blowing up) for you. Long live PAX Americana!
There is no global consciousness. It's still a dog eat dog world. It all depends on which side of the fence you sit, ....and of course who has the bigger teeth.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:Originally posted by Haim Ronen:
Perhaps you will be more comfortable to compare last week's events with the Exodus 1947, a ship carrying Holocaust survivors which sailed from France hoping to break the British blockade (imposed to prevent such journeys) and arrive to Palestine's shores.
The british navy intercepted the Exodus outside territorial waters and stormed the ship. Some of the passenger resisted and the soldiers used force, killing three and injuring others. The ship was brought into harbor and the passengers were taken off by force. Here is the full story:
Haim, I wonder how many of those Jews had recently been liberated from Belsen, Dachau et al by the British Army.
I have read the linked article, and note that the Commander was a member of Palmach and his second in command was a member of Haganah - IIRC both of these where referred top as Terrorist organisations who as George points out, had already killed Britons. I think that so far during 1947, 33 Britons had been killed by Jewish Terrorists. So the picture is not quite as easy as you'd expect.
Thw world of 60 years ago is vastly different to today; witness the US treatment in WW2 of its own citizens who happened to be of Japanese extraction. Even the two Jewish deaths where not caused by gunfire but by bludgeoning. The passengers had actually left the Exodus and where on three other ships when they returned to France; they then decided they did not want to land and staged a hunger strike and refused to cooperate with the British.
I also note two pieces of text from your source, discussing the actions of the passengers when they'd embarked on another ship:
"It is a very frightening thing to go into the hold full of yelling maniacs when outnumbered six or eight to one." Describing the assault, the officer wrote to his superiors: "After a very short pause, with a lot of yelling and female screams, every available weapon up to a biscuit and bulks of timber was hurled at the soldiers. They withstood it admirably and very stoically till the Jews assaulted and in the first rush several soldiers were downed with half a dozen Jews on top kicking and tearing ... No other troops could have done it as well and as humanely as these British ones did." He concluded: "It should be borne in mind that the guiding factor in most of the actions of the Jews is to gain the sympathy of the world press."
and..
"Security fears seemed justified after the Jews were removed when a large, homemade bomb with a timed fuse was found on one of the three ships. It was apparently rigged to detonate after the Jews had been removed, the cables indicate.
quote:I will be glad to hear your comments.
The IDF got it wrong last week.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Derry
Israel is a nation state and has the same right as any other to manage its affairs in the way it thinks best.
Frankly, it does not matter to them what anyone else thinks about how they do that. Personally, I have no problem with that.
Countries and individuals know how the Israelis defend their interests and they get themselves involved at their own peril.
Perhaps the UK should try for regime change - I mean that's worked very well previously.
Frankly, it does not matter to them what anyone else thinks about how they do that. Personally, I have no problem with that.
Countries and individuals know how the Israelis defend their interests and they get themselves involved at their own peril.
Perhaps the UK should try for regime change - I mean that's worked very well previously.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by fatcat
quote:Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
[Haim, I wonder how many of those Jews had recently been liberated from Belsen, Dachau et al by the British Army.
They where liberated by the British 2nd Army. The 2nd Army was later sent to Palestine. To say they weren’t pleased at what went on in Palestine is an understatement. My dad still keeps going on about it.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Haim Ronen
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Haim,
At the time after the WWII, during the British Mandate in Palestine there was considerable conflict between Zionists Terrorists and the British Military and Mandate Authorities posted there.
91 people died in the King David Hotel bombing by right wing Zionists in 1946, one year earlier. The hotel was the site of the central offices of the British Mandatory Authorities in Palestine, and Headquarters of the British Forces based there.
I am not saying that kiling people is acceptable, but perhaps it is well to remember the history and context, to understand how such acts could actually happen - however horrible.
ATB from George
George,
An important part art of the story which people ignore is that the Irgun made a couple of phone calls to the hotel well in advance, warning them about the planted bomb and giving them ample of time to evacuate the hotel. Unfortunately all the phone calls were ignored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Haim Ronen
quote:Originally posted by lutyens:
Haim
Your point is well made but................if it was wrong for the Exodus/Jews to suffer this then, then why oh why is it acceptable for Israel to it to someone else today?
atb
james
James,
You are absolutely right. The planners of last week events should have kept the Exodus 1947 in their mind, and perhaps this tragic event could have been prevented.
Haim
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Haim Ronen
quote:Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
Thw world of 60 years ago is vastly different to today; witness the US treatment in WW2 of its own citizens who happened to be of Japanese extraction. Even the two Jewish deaths where not caused by gunfire but by bludgeoning..
Mike,
Your elaborate endless excuses for your 'never do wrong' guys in Palestine, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan are filling my eyes with tears. I am recommending you to the Israeli government. They desperately need someone like you to shore up their crumbling image among the world's nations.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by powerbench1
Any loss or human suffering on any side is tragic to say the least. Atrocities occur everyday we don't get news of...unknown civillians being wiped out in Aghanistan or Iraq or even dozens of other countries which do not make the 'popular press radar'. How many regimes are operating worldwide right now at the expense of human life and we do nothing about?
Interesting program I heard on CBC Radio the other day driving home from work how US unmanned combat drones are killing civillians and it rarely make headlines. It appears the operators are held as accountable as they should. Now if Iran did the same strike on selective soft targets umm say to a US ally what would happen??
I ain't Anti-American but who do we really believe? I remember a few years ago there was a quite a big tropical storm that killed thousands, in a country which has such a great military presence in comparison as virtually nothing was done to help the 1000's of mostly minorities caught inside the Superbowl for days.
Is there not enough equiptment even in the National Guard alone to airlift and amphibiously transport all those people out in hours?? But they had to rent Greyhound buses from Houston to do the work? Lots of black folk wading through the waters and sitting on their rooftops waving and waiting for help. Lest we forget!!
Oh yes remember also the elderly who drowned in nursing homes. Or the hospital patients awaiting evac on the rooftops who died because of the hospital staff could not keep them manually breathing because they were exhausted as the helicopters came too late.
Where was the biggest military of the world with all its ships,landing craft, aircraft and hovercraft at that time??
Talk about Genocide, you don't have to look far.
Interesting program I heard on CBC Radio the other day driving home from work how US unmanned combat drones are killing civillians and it rarely make headlines. It appears the operators are held as accountable as they should. Now if Iran did the same strike on selective soft targets umm say to a US ally what would happen??
I ain't Anti-American but who do we really believe? I remember a few years ago there was a quite a big tropical storm that killed thousands, in a country which has such a great military presence in comparison as virtually nothing was done to help the 1000's of mostly minorities caught inside the Superbowl for days.
Is there not enough equiptment even in the National Guard alone to airlift and amphibiously transport all those people out in hours?? But they had to rent Greyhound buses from Houston to do the work? Lots of black folk wading through the waters and sitting on their rooftops waving and waiting for help. Lest we forget!!
Oh yes remember also the elderly who drowned in nursing homes. Or the hospital patients awaiting evac on the rooftops who died because of the hospital staff could not keep them manually breathing because they were exhausted as the helicopters came too late.
Where was the biggest military of the world with all its ships,landing craft, aircraft and hovercraft at that time??
Talk about Genocide, you don't have to look far.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by powerbench1
correction:" the operators are not held as accounyable as they should"...
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by powerbench1:
Where was the biggest military of the world with all its ships,landing craft, aircraft and hovercraft at that time??
Talk about Genocide, you don't have to look far.
I think the handling of the Katrina aftermath was an unconscionable, heartbreaking tragedy, and much of the blame can go directly to the Bush Jr. administration, as well as to local government.
But if you're suggesting this was genocide, I think you need to look up the definition.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Onthlam
quote:Originally posted by powerbench1:
The sad thing about history there is and always been suffering and injustice. Every nation-state endures for its own survival. It's justification for existation based on mores suited to them and that might be evil to us or vise versa. Iran, Afghanistan and the US have vastly different cultures, history and political viewpoints. Its all a matter of survival and exploitation sad to say. Israel is another player.
Since the beginning of time, every society on this planet sooner or later been overrun or assimilated by someone. Perhaps the Medes or the Persians also believed in the own autonomy as we do. Israel is no different and if I was an Israeli I might be able to quickly justify my own nations actions based on my own survival.
I think there is little equity in human relations. Sooner or later the Strongest do survive and the weak loose. We haven't changed in the thousands of years although we think we have with technology and the information we have access to. We are not wiser just more informed.
We still fly planes into building and blow the crab out of each other if you cross our socio-political or ideological boundaries. You might be lucky to have a strong ally like the US who might do it (the blowing up) for you. Long live PAX Americana!
There is no global consciousness. It's still a dog eat dog world. It all depends on which side of the fence you sit, ....and of course who has the bigger teeth.
"Long live PAX Americana!"
If this were only partly true?
MN
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Onthlam
"There is no global consciousness. It's still a dog eat dog world. It all depends on which side of the fence you sit, ....and of course who has the bigger teeth."
And who your friends are-
MN
And who your friends are-
MN
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Onthlam
[QUOTE]Originally posted by powerbench1:
Any loss or human suffering on any side is tragic to say the least. Atrocities occur everyday we don't get news of...unknown civillians being wiped out in Aghanistan or Iraq or even dozens of other countries which do not make the 'popular press radar'. How many regimes are operating worldwide right now at the expense of human life and we do nothing about?
Interesting program I heard on CBC Radio the other day driving home from work how US unmanned combat drones are killing civillians and it rarely make headlines. It appears the operators are held as accountable as they should. Now if Iran did the same strike on selective soft targets umm say to a US ally what would happen??
War ain't pretty.
"I ain't Anti-American but who do we really believe? I remember a few years ago there was a quite a big tropical storm that killed thousands, in a country which has such a great military presence in comparison as virtually nothing was done to help the 1000's of mostly minorities caught inside the Superbowl for days.
Is there not enough equiptment even in the National Guard alone to airlift and amphibiously transport all those people out in hours?? But they had to rent Greyhound buses from Houston to do the work? Lots of black folk wading through the waters and sitting on their rooftops waving and waiting for help. Lest we forget!!
Oh yes remember also the elderly who drowned in nursing homes. Or the hospital patients awaiting evac on the rooftops who died because of the hospital staff could not keep them manually breathing because they were exhausted as the helicopters came too late.
Where was the biggest military of the world with all its ships,landing craft, aircraft and hovercraft at that time??"
In the context of this discussion? Where does this fit in?
"Talk about Genocide, you don't have to look far."
The above is so off base. I can't believe you had the balls to write it.
Any loss or human suffering on any side is tragic to say the least. Atrocities occur everyday we don't get news of...unknown civillians being wiped out in Aghanistan or Iraq or even dozens of other countries which do not make the 'popular press radar'. How many regimes are operating worldwide right now at the expense of human life and we do nothing about?
Interesting program I heard on CBC Radio the other day driving home from work how US unmanned combat drones are killing civillians and it rarely make headlines. It appears the operators are held as accountable as they should. Now if Iran did the same strike on selective soft targets umm say to a US ally what would happen??
War ain't pretty.
"I ain't Anti-American but who do we really believe? I remember a few years ago there was a quite a big tropical storm that killed thousands, in a country which has such a great military presence in comparison as virtually nothing was done to help the 1000's of mostly minorities caught inside the Superbowl for days.
Is there not enough equiptment even in the National Guard alone to airlift and amphibiously transport all those people out in hours?? But they had to rent Greyhound buses from Houston to do the work? Lots of black folk wading through the waters and sitting on their rooftops waving and waiting for help. Lest we forget!!
Oh yes remember also the elderly who drowned in nursing homes. Or the hospital patients awaiting evac on the rooftops who died because of the hospital staff could not keep them manually breathing because they were exhausted as the helicopters came too late.
Where was the biggest military of the world with all its ships,landing craft, aircraft and hovercraft at that time??"
In the context of this discussion? Where does this fit in?
"Talk about Genocide, you don't have to look far."
The above is so off base. I can't believe you had the balls to write it.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Onthlam
quote:Originally posted by munch:
No one is ever going to get the answer to this Question.
If its right or wrong.Wrong or just?
Israel will always do what it thinks is right.
End of.
As will all other countries in a similar situation.
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by Onthlam
quote:Originally posted by fred simon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by powerbench1:
Where was the biggest military of the world with all its ships,landing craft, aircraft and hovercraft at that time??
Talk about Genocide, you don't have to look far.
I think the handling of the Katrina aftermath was an unconscionable, heartbreaking tragedy, and much of the blame can go directly to the Bush Jr. administration, as well as to local government.
But if you're suggesting this was genocide, I think you need to look up the definition.
Fred-
Among other hats you wear?
Are you a professor teaching in the Chicago area?
Marc
Posted on: 09 June 2010 by fred simon
quote:Originally posted by Marc Newman:
Fred-
Among other hats you wear?
Are you a professor teaching in the Chicago area?
I am, indeed, Marc ... why do you ask?
Fred
Posted on: 10 June 2010 by powerbench1
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.[1]
There is a definition for you. Leaving thousands of minority taxpaying citizens out to rot is part of the example.
There is a definition for you. Leaving thousands of minority taxpaying citizens out to rot is part of the example.
Posted on: 10 June 2010 by powerbench1
PS. Also every American should be aware that if its leaders treated one minority group this way what will happened next time?
You missed the point...the US combined armed forces has enough manpower and equiptment that could had been scrambled to rescue those people in a lot less time than whatever did actually happen. How many military bases are within 500 miles radius of New Orleans and how many aircraft, amphibious and ground transports were mobilized within 24hrs of the crisis, or at all??
Few years back we had an huge winter ice storm in Eastern Canada that left thousands of homes without power and heat. Our military and reserves (although much much smaller) were mobilized to assist and they did just that.
I can understand with all the available US resources why weren't they used??I was horrified to watch it unfold on tv. Is not that neglience on part of the government? Like I said if I was living down south (US) I would be worried about what my government will do for me in a crisis. Passing the buck does not save one life.
Sorry guys had to say that, now back to audio.
You missed the point...the US combined armed forces has enough manpower and equiptment that could had been scrambled to rescue those people in a lot less time than whatever did actually happen. How many military bases are within 500 miles radius of New Orleans and how many aircraft, amphibious and ground transports were mobilized within 24hrs of the crisis, or at all??
Few years back we had an huge winter ice storm in Eastern Canada that left thousands of homes without power and heat. Our military and reserves (although much much smaller) were mobilized to assist and they did just that.
I can understand with all the available US resources why weren't they used??I was horrified to watch it unfold on tv. Is not that neglience on part of the government? Like I said if I was living down south (US) I would be worried about what my government will do for me in a crisis. Passing the buck does not save one life.
Sorry guys had to say that, now back to audio.
Posted on: 10 June 2010 by Onthlam
quote:Originally posted by powerbench1:
PS. Also every American should be aware that if its leaders treated one minority group this way what will happened next time?
You missed the point...the US combined armed forces has enough manpower and equiptment that could had been scrambled to rescue those people in a lot less time than whatever did actually happen. How many military bases are within 500 miles radius of New Orleans and how many aircraft, amphibious and ground transports were mobilized within 24hrs of the crisis, or at all??
Few years back we had an huge winter ice storm in Eastern Canada that left thousands of homes without power and heat. Our military and reserves (although much much smaller) were mobilized to assist and they did just that.
I can understand with all the available US resources why weren't they used??I was horrified to watch it unfold on tv. Is not that neglience on part of the government? Like I said if I was living down south (US) I would be worried about what my government will do for me in a crisis. Passing the buck does not save one life.
Sorry guys had to say that, now back to audio.
Still,I ask,in what context does this have any relevance to this thread? Please start a new thread and we can discuss..
MN
Posted on: 10 June 2010 by Onthlam
quote:Originally posted by powerbench1:
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.[1]
There is a definition for you. Leaving thousands of minority taxpaying citizens out to rot is part of the example.
If that be true?
Irish (religious war)
The whole of Europe
The USA
India
The Azteks
Japan
Oh lord, this list will go on for days and I need to get to work...The above all have committed according to your rules. I guess I have too. By driving and killing thousands of bugs on the front of my car every day I have systematically,in part,destroyed.
In my book,
whaling,Hitler,American Buffalo,Native Americans,Siberian tiger,logging the rain forest.....
MN
Posted on: 10 June 2010 by powerbench1
Well Marc interesting point about the bugs.
I guess its a matter of opinion....and how close to the Gulf, or the in this case windshield you are.
Yes I could start another more appropiate thread but I am not into bashing specific governments. These are simply observations.
I expected some backlash about what I posted but it all can be found on CNN and the media. Of course CNN is not going to demonize their own people but as a person who has travelled the US and I do appreciate the benefits of it, I feel compassion for those who suffered there. I also would like to visit Israel and the Gaza to understand those people and their plights. I cannot beliebve all those people are simply evil, just like I don't believe the average Joe American can be held accountable for one's government.
The releavance to the thread is Israel is not the only culprit out there performing alleged atrocities out there.
I guess its all a matter of opinion and what/who captures media coverage.
All the best fellow Naim-ite.
Mark
I guess its a matter of opinion....and how close to the Gulf, or the in this case windshield you are.
Yes I could start another more appropiate thread but I am not into bashing specific governments. These are simply observations.
I expected some backlash about what I posted but it all can be found on CNN and the media. Of course CNN is not going to demonize their own people but as a person who has travelled the US and I do appreciate the benefits of it, I feel compassion for those who suffered there. I also would like to visit Israel and the Gaza to understand those people and their plights. I cannot beliebve all those people are simply evil, just like I don't believe the average Joe American can be held accountable for one's government.
The releavance to the thread is Israel is not the only culprit out there performing alleged atrocities out there.
I guess its all a matter of opinion and what/who captures media coverage.
All the best fellow Naim-ite.
Mark
Posted on: 10 June 2010 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:Originally posted by Haim Ronen:quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Haim,
At the time after the WWII, during the British Mandate in Palestine there was considerable conflict between Zionists Terrorists and the British Military and Mandate Authorities posted there.
91 people died in the King David Hotel bombing by right wing Zionists in 1946, one year earlier. The hotel was the site of the central offices of the British Mandatory Authorities in Palestine, and Headquarters of the British Forces based there.
I am not saying that kiling people is acceptable, but perhaps it is well to remember the history and context, to understand how such acts could actually happen - however horrible.
ATB from George
George,
An important part art of the story which people ignore is that the Irgun made a couple of phone calls to the hotel well in advance, warning them about the planted bomb and giving them ample of time to evacuate the hotel. Unfortunately all the phone calls were ignored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
Ah, so thats OK then?
Haim, it was a murderous act. You cannot excuse it.