Another classic al***s list

Me, I score 8/40

DS

OTD - Harold Budd - Abandoned Cities

Perfect illustration of what is, and has been wrong with popular music over the last 40 years. 8 from 40 artists are Black. The rest have stolen and bastardised Black music. Shite the lot of them except Van!

John

OTD Von Freeman.. Blues Serenade (homage a DSS)

John:

I make it 12: Miles, Hendrix, Aretha, Love, Marvin, Sly, Stevie, Marley, Jacko, Prince, NWA, Public Enemy.

Davie

Bhoyo good point but errrm.... as president of the unofficial South Armagh groovemeisters black appreciation society and just arrived home from annual dinner dance.. sums ain't the best.. My point stands.

OTD... Ornette Coleman..Free Jazz!!!!!!!

John:

Please make me an honorary member of the SAGBAS!

Your point is well-taken, sir. Having said that, the list was much better than I expected from USA Today.

Are you an Al Green man? If so (and, indeed, if not), his new one is fab.

Bestest

Davie

Davie, Al

.. the Rev Al ..is an honorary Taig as far as I'm concerned.

John

ps Harold Budd, isn't he the recently elected DUP member for Cultra, perhaps Mr Tibbs can help us here

[This message was edited by John C on FRIDAY 05 December 2003 at 23:12.]

quote:

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Perfect illustration of what is, and has been wrong with popular music over the last 40 years. 8 from 40 artists are Black. The rest have stolen and bastardised Black music. Shite the lot of them except Van!

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Bit unsure what your point actually is here! All music should be made by Black artists?. Black artists don't rip other people off?

Anyway 28/40. But I do find it a strange list, but couldn't really argue that many of the entries shouldn't be there (Neil Young's entry and Sinead O'Connor accepted.)

Some reasonable surprises (Aretha, Cash, Sly, Dusty, etc) granted, but the appearance of the same dreary old choices betrays a critical lack of imagination.

And the inclusion of the weedy and comically inept Guns & Roses over the mighty Led Zeppelin demonstrates that the beings who compiled this list are some way from sentience.

Oh by the way John C - are you deaf? Van Morisson is probably the most overrated, over-hyped singer in the history of popular music. And "Arsetral Weaks" is a laughable melange of faux mysticism, limp-wristed jazz stylings and the kind of overwrought romanticism that wouldn't look out of place in a Mills & Boon. It resembles nothing so much as the efforts of an over-eager 6th former trying to compose purple prose but instead ending up with a rather sickly shade of lilac.

For some bizarre reason this wretchedly over-regarded rot has become a kind of touchstone for the critical establishment, beyond criticism. Does anyone know why?

Cheers

Kevin

John C,

Perhaps Harold Budd had given up the eastern ecleticism to concentrate on NI politics, a common career move.

Kevin, I'm with you on the Van issue, him and Bob and Frank.

OTD - TG - After Cease to Exist soundtrack

Led Zeppelin ??? Reels around with laughter. That bloated excuse for music, bastardised blues by a bunch of posturing, drugged out public schoolboys with as much blues or soul as well ...the biggest insult I can think of is Eric Clapton!

I'm not saying great music can only be produced by black people but in my book most of that list is anaemic make believe tosh, copied from artists with real soul, for white boys with no rhythmn.

David lol

John

No point in having these ridiculous lists if you can't have an over the top and pointless rage at them.

Actually now that Ive looked at the list in what I'll euphemistically call the cold light of day, I have 24 of them. Oh dear!Sadly I dont often let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

John
Sorry if I upset anyone except that rotter Kevin

John

What is Van M if not a white boy who has appropriated black music (cf "soulful"stylings on various albums, not to mention the dirty urban R&B of Them - on whose best records a certain J Page played).

Part of Led Zep's appeal lies in the very things you mentioned - the pomp, the swagger the bombast, etc. Middle-class they may have been but public school they weren't (Public school rock has a definite flavour - Genesis and The Cure being two obvious examples). As for the wholesale and, it has to be said, often uncredited, plundering of ancient blues, well, true enough - but look what they did with those riffs!

Also, to accuse Percy & Co of "having no soul" is flying in the face of all the evidence. Which other rock band has had a greater commitment to music-making? Or was imbued with such celestial passion? And how can you accuse John paul Jones and John Bonham of not having a sense of rhythm?

It is also a well-documented fact that much of America - and even black America - was ignorant of its musical heritage until nice white middle-class English people like the Stones, Clapton, the great Peter Green, Mayall etc "sold" it back to them. So many of these "white boys with no rhythm" performed a valuable service. And the most crucial presence on Miles' "KoB" is in fact a white man - pianist Bill Evans.

I think you are simply an inverse snob who mistakenly thinks that Springsteen or Morrison are somehow more "real" or "authentic" than, say Sinatra or the Floyd. We are talking about popular music here, and popular music is a commercial activity which relies on artifice for much of its appeal; "and", as Barry Norman would say, "why not?"

Kevin

PS I score 27/40 on the list (you can guess which ones are missing - Morrison, Springsteen, etc. Real white boys with no soul or rhythm)

[This message was edited by Kevin-W on TUESDAY 09 December 2003 at 15:50.]

Kevin, John Lee Hooker covered a Van Morrison song, Dolly Parton covered Stairway to Heaven. I rest my case.

John

Admittedly I really like the Dolly Parton version.

Mmmm...

Not convinced.

But I agree with you about Clapton though - plastic music for bored yuppies.

Kevin

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin-W:
Oh by the way John C - are you deaf? Van Morisson is probably the most overrated, over-hyped singer in the history of popular music. And "Arsetral Weaks" is a laughable melange of faux mysticism, limp-wristed jazz stylings and the kind of overwrought romanticism that wouldn't look out of place in a Mills & Boon. It resembles nothing so much as the efforts of an over-eager 6th former trying to compose purple prose but instead ending up with a rather sickly shade of lilac.

For some bizarre reason this wretchedly over-regarded rot has become a kind of touchstone for the critical establishment, beyond criticism. Does anyone know why?

Cheers

Kevin

---

Kevin, Looking back over preious posting we have generally been in agreement on musical tastes and you have helped with advice to me also more than once, but with this comment I think you are totally wrong and if you do not enjoy the music of early Van Morrison up to about 1976 you are missing out in life.
For me it is definately not a jazz style and never pretended to be but has fantastic energy and rythem.

He's got a point though donchathink? It gets a bit numbing when in Ireland and every pub or bar is playing Van bloody Morrison all day and all night like nothing else existed.

RICHYH

Sorry you feel like that. (Thanks for the nice comments, by the way!) I live a pretty rich life, one that has not suffered because of my loathing of Van Morrison. I'm firmly with David Slater and Rasher on this one...

Kevin

Alan- what are you doing here, as you don't like music. You have just written off some of the best stuff ever made.

I accept Rashers point and yours Kevin, as I do tend to like just about everything (except New Order and the Pet shop poofs) but some of Them and his early albums are musically brilliant.
(his later stuff is pretty crap to me).
Do I take it that also, from the remarks, you don't like Bob Dylan then.

RICHYH

I like Bobby Dylan very much - not ALL Dylan, but a great deal of it; I adore "Blood On The Tracks", for example.

Dylan-wise, I can't stand the pre-"Bringing It all Back Home" foly protest crap; nor do I like his Christian period. And the whole of the 1980s ("No Mercy" excepted is a complete write-off for me).

I actually like Them (I have an LP at home!), it's just VM gets on me tits, and "AW" particularly gets on my breasts.

Alan - another Scott Walkerite! Have you got the box set yet? Great stuff! Me and my mate Graz had a real laugh the other night, playing "Tilt", which is probably the most depressing and least listenable album ever made. Ace.

Kevin

Alan- WOW LETS KEEP THIS AN AMICABLE DISCUSSION, could you give me a list of what you do like then please. (also I would appreciate if you could keep any discussion to music as personel insults get us nowhere).
As it happens I was speaking light heartedly about the way you wrote off most major bands/recordings off the last 30 years.
And as for the super talented Pet Shop boys if I can't a comment about the same song they have rehashed for 20 years,well, so sorry if its upset you, BUT COULD EXPLAIN WHY IT IS NOT OK FOR ME TO CALL THEM WHAT I DID BUT OK FOR YOU TO CALL THE SUGABABES THE SHAGNASTEES.
Also I still believe The Sex Pistols were the most over hyped talentless "real"band in history whose SHOCK factor was the selling point, Sique Sique Sputnik tried it again at a later date, surely bands like the clash are where the true punk talent lay. I still cant work out you comment on "You're more of the Johnny & The Self Abusers type, aren't you?" please explain. thanks

[This message was edited by RICHYH on FRIDAY 12 December 2003 at 09:22.]

[This message was edited by RICHYH on FRIDAY 12 December 2003 at 09:35.]

[This message was edited by RICHYH on FRIDAY 12 December 2003 at 10:20.]

Like all such lists, it seems to put tokenism ahead of absolute quality (must have one rap album, the most angsty Springsteen and Dylan but not necessarily the best), toughness over sensitivity (NWA but no Byrds), the known over the lesser-known (Blue instead of Hissing or Hejira) etc.

Or maybe those are just my choices.

There are a couple of interesting things, though the Rolling Stone 500 is more useful.

Well I am predictable but I truely believe that DSOTM should be in there, its a great album, which at the age of twelve (not so long ago) got me onto Floyd, and possibly good music in general.

I don know about the Prince in that list, I got this album becuase everyone says its great, but like all his albums, they appear to be appauling recordings.

I got Another of his last weekend, it like they totally forgot midrange and bass, most frustrating.

I also got Dylans in that list. I tried, god only knows I tried but I think I just find his voice midly annoying, so I am OK for the first track, or two at most but after it just gets bloody boring.

Sorry.

Also and I mean this most sincerely. Lamb Chop's Is A Woman should be considered in any of these lists, if people on this board have not got this album, get it.

Thanks Alan- I think you have made you point, as I would hate to see you "really pissed off".
If I need to justify myself just for you, I was into the Clash then and saw then 3 times but what difference this makes to you is beyond me.
But your list of what you like is not really saying much of who you like, please enlighten all the "mainstream Rock Fans " with your fantastic wisdom.