Distributed Audio Mullets...?

Unfortunately Mike, for many of us it is not the Naim kit that is limiting the performance at all, but the itunes/DAC solution itself that is at issue. The "lower end" sytems such as the SN or 202/200 clearly show the limitations of the itunes/DAC solution so no need to check higher in the ladder.

Can't say we found that when running various DAC's and front ends through a rather nice 552/500/Audiovector system the other night. Even the HDX put in a good performance once it had a 555PS powering it.

James

No problems running through my 552/500 system, as James mentions.

I've given up worrying about how much I spent on my 555 + dual 555PS set up and am thoroughly embracing the new developments in streaming audio. The CD555 just about holds its own (but the gap is small), but the convenience of having your whole music library at your finger tips combined with stunning musical playback a Mac/PC/Sonos + DAC solution is fantastic.

This is definately a very compelling format. It does require some knowledge to get the best rips possible. But then you're laughing.

A better amp set up just allows you do dig deeper into the music and enjoy it even more.

Embrace the future

Graham

I don't use iTunes except for managing content on my iPhone, but I am a big fan of computer based sources - in my case the Logitech 'Slim Devices' Transporter.

This sounds excellent through my 252, SC2, 300 into a pair of Guru QM10s.

Just started using a iTunes / Mac Mini / Lavry DA10 combination through my 52/ 250 /Shihinian Obelisks. Extremely musical combination and up there against my CDS II. (Thanks Guys!).

Worth checking out and making up your own mind.

Best Wishes

Richard

I remember going through this with a NAC52 / SUPERCAP x 2 / SNAXO36 / 3 x NAP250 / DBL system–at the time, I was using a CDS2 / XPS front end, and also an AV2 fed from an iMac G5 via optical.

All of the devices were connected on the same dedicated circuit, except for the iMac (part of a studio setup I had in an adjacent room, now a nursery).

Conclusion?

I liked, for a time, what the AV2 (used as a stereo DAC) did on a tonal basis (as the active DBLs could present an accurate scale of the differences, in spite of the size of the room), especially on Compact Discs of dubious quality (Peter Gabriel's UP comes to mind). But the CDS2 held its own, even then (prior to upgrading the software to CDc01-01), and excelled as regards timing.

Move forward to a later system (NAC252 / SUPERCAP2 X 2 / SNAXO362 / NAP250-2 x 3 / DBLS) with CDX2 / XPS2 vs. same iMac / AV2 setup, and the conclusion was radically different–the AV2 wasn't even close to the performance of the CDX2-based setup, with more recent amplification–though i'd be the first to say that this system was far-better set up as regards AC mains and overall attention to detail than the (still well set-up) olive system.

In systems where the primary voicing tends toward a detailed presentation, with an emphasis on tonal attributes, the conclusions attained will be different than one whose setup is designed to maximize information retrieval over the entire bandwidth–all of this entirely dependent on room characteristics which will limit the degree to which any sensible musical differentiations can be made.

I am struck, still, by the breadth of presentation and setup that the current and past ranges of Naim equipment present as regards overall performance–all of which points to the need, say, requirement, to get good demonstrations of equipment in a controlled environment (with a sensible methodology) before pronouncing (an often myopic) judgement.

I have been quite lucky to have had that opportunity on a daily basis, but I'm convinced that one needs multiple iterations (in varying rooms and environments) at these comparisons to make a reasonable conclusion.

My current systems listed in the profile reflect the constraints of child-proofed, smaller space, with an aim to making music on a smaller budget!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike in PA, USA:
Hi gang,

My question for those on here running Itunes-based systems - and seemingly quite satisfied with the sound - is how far up the Naim range have you gone with amplification while still feeling your computer-based source gives a CD a run for it's money. I know many have been happy with the supernait or even 202-based systems, but is anyone as pleased with computer-based audio though any of the "better" preamps? Anyone running iTunes through a 282 or better? (252, 552?) Has this revealed any limitations in the computer or DAC not evident with the preamps that are lower in the range?

Cheers,
Mike

Hello Mike,

Since using Mac Mini -> toslink -> Lavry DA10 -> Neutrik XLR + HiLine to 252/500 -> Dynaudio Contour s 5.4, I have found myself listening to music more and more every day.

Q.

quote:

Since using Mac Mini -> toslink -> Lavry DA10 -> Neutrik XLR + HiLine to 252/500 -> Dynaudio Contour s 5.4, I have found myself listening to music more and more every day.

Hi Q,

Have you tried using a different interconnect? I find both my Lavry and BM Dac1 don't need the smoothing out the Hi-Line has. My streaming improved immeasurably when I substituted my Hi-Line with a £30 Flashback cable. The assumption that the Hi-Line works for certain cd replay may not necessarily extend to other source components. Let your ears decide.

ATB Keith

Believe James N is playing with a new XLR -> Din cable?

James - any conclusion?

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:
Hi Q,

Have you tried using a different interconnect? I find both my Lavry and BM Dac1 don't need the smoothing out the Hi-Line has. My streaming improved immeasurably when I substituted my Hi-Line with a £30 Flashback cable. The assumption that the Hi-Line works for certain cd replay may not necessarily extend to other source components. Let your ears decide.

ATB Keith

Thanks for the suggestion Keith. I will give it a try some time.
Q.

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
Believe James N is playing with a new XLR -> Din cable?

James - any conclusion?

A few days ago I was fortunate enough to hear both the Flashback cable and the new alternative based on Canare cable. Both cost around the £30 mark. All of us listening agreed the Canare was an improvement over the Flashback.

Graham,

I heard the very same Canare cable and agree it is more detailed. The Flashback has a bolder mid presence. The difference is slight compared to either pitched up against a Hi-Line.

Keith

i also went away from the flashback cable toward Neutrik XLR + another cable...

with the flashback my cds2 with hiline still was more enjoyable... now in the new constellation it at least equals...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike in PA, USA:
Anyone running iTunes through a 282 or better? (252, 552?) Has this revealed any limitations in the computer or DAC not evident with the preamps that are lower in the range?

I'm using an iTunes/MacBook->DAC system through a 552/250.2 setup and it unquestionably competes with (and, in my view, actually edges out) my previous CDS3/XPS2/HiLine combination. As mentioned above, the combination of superlative sound quality and the convenience of accessing one's entire digital music collection with a few touches of a remote make for a very compelling solution.

quote:

Originally posted by Graham Russell:
This is definately a very compelling format. It does require some knowledge to get the best rips possible.

Graham:

Are you using a ripping approach other than the iTunes lossless one that has previously been described on this forum? I use that approach and it seems to work well but if there is a better approach it would be nice to know about it.

Thanks.

Michael

As of 25/11/08 I will be running a couple of MAC/DAC (Meridian & Lavry) combos through 552 500 500 250 SC/SNAXO DBLs. Currently running this but with NBLs. There is NOTHING lacking with the MAC/DAC combo, and it is dangerously close to a 555. I read all these posts putting it down and yet others like mine singing its praises. It can only be settings/ setup differences. If correctly configured a MAC/DAC combo is seriously good and rivals the high end.

Cheers Karl

I have the Canare cable now (although its aat on my desk here at work having just arrived this morning ).

I did try a Lavender interconnect (re terminated with a single XLR plug) and a link mod in the Lavry but the results weren't as good as the Flashback cable.

James

Okay, everyone - thanks for posting. To spill some beans, I have been playing over the weekend with a macbook/iTunes/apple lossless/airport express into a ~$1000. DAC that has been touted on this forum in the past, and will be comparing it to another DAC in the same price range. I know that I may be losing some resolutions though the express, but frankly I don't miss much of the CDX2/XPS2 even at this point. Amps are 202/250.

The internal drive on the macbook is quickly getting filled, and I can see a mac mini server/external HD in the near future (while will allow me to relegate the Express to use in a different room). Point is, my dealer usually offers decent trade for kit purchased from him towards new kit, and I can conceive of bringing the CDP, PS and Pre back towards a 282 +/- fraim or powerline if the computer-based source will stand p to it.

I'm sure if I were to try really hard, I could discern differences between the mac rig and the CDP, but if I don't miss the CDP and the mac continues to show improvement to justify upgrades downstream, what is the argument against?

Cheers,
M

Mike - once i'd heard my Mac/Dac setup through Grahams 552/500 system i could hear it wasn't a source limitation so ended up adding a 282.

Result - even more music

James

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone!

I had mentioned that I was auditioning one of the DACs that seems to be quite popular among users here that is in the ~$1000 price point. Well, the "other" DAC in a similar price point arrived today and I have just installed it into the system.

Wow.

I really thought the first unit was impressive, as I was really not missing my CDX2/XPS2 at all, and the music really got my foot tapping. Well, the contender has now taken its place in my system and I am not tapping my foot quite as much. Rather, I am getting up and dancing!!! (no joke).

I plan to continue with my evaluation over the next couple weeks or so, but even with the MacBook streaming Apple Lossless rips of redbook CDs thought Airport Express, pretty spectacular.

Hmm...

Cheers,
Mike

Mike,

Why are you using the AE? I could understand if you are using a laptop without digital out or a remote pc/mac server.

Is it because you want to be able to use your MB at the same time as streaming from it?

Which two sub $1000 dacs are you using? I have both the BM Dac1 and the Lavry DA10 and there is no clear winner. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Keith

Keith

Keith,

I am using the AE, as you had guessed, to be able the laptop wirelessly for other applications throughout the house. I have to say, I don't really hear may deficiencies with this rig. However, the headless server (Mac Mini) will likely be implemented soon, not just to potentially improve sonics, but to allow connection to a USB drive for storage.

As for DACs, the Lavry seems to have much more of a sense of humanity and timing (PRaT?). The Benchmark was nice, and very "transparent", but the Lavry is more engaging to me. As I said in my original post, I will continue to listen to both.

M

The term 'Distributed Audio Mullets' seems to me to be a fully fledged oxymoron

Mr Tibbs

Haircut HiFi of the Gods?