cartridge survey
Posted by: Joe Petrik on 10 May 2001
Only a dozen or so cartridge manufacturers survived the great analogue extinction from the digital beast. So who's left, not counting the DJ stuff? Scan-Tech, Dynavector, Grado, Audio-Technica, Immedia, van den Hul, Goldring, Benz-Micro, Ortophon, Koetsu, Denon, Sumiko...?
What are you using and in what?
Joe
Though this thread is interesting I think another useful tangent to look at is what cartridges would people *avoid* and why. Here's my first vote in this direction--any of the rega cartridges. Maybe unfair, but I've heard two in two different lp12 based systems and neither sounded very good, imho. Could have been setup, could have been that they were worn out.
Another useful tangent, I think, would look at setup tips, like for arm height, cartridge angle, etc. Any suggestions? I ask, since some of the criticisms mentioned in the above threads (like light-weight bass, bright treble, etc.) sound like they might be setup problems. What do you think? I recognize that we're using different tables, but there might be a value in noting some tips...
Marku
and,
Andy: "(One [duck] committed suicide by throwing itself off the shelf to Pink Floyd's Echoes)."
I would do the same.
quote:
Another useful tangent, I think, would look at setup tips, like for arm height, cartridge angle, etc. Any suggestions? I ask, since some of the criticisms mentioned in the above threads (like light-weight bass, bright treble, etc.) sound like they might be setup problems. What do you think? I recognize that we're using different tables, but there might be a value in noting some tips...
I use a standard two point alignment protractor, I have two, one badged by Linn, and the other by Ortofon, they both give the same result and match up with the flimsy one point cardboard thing that came with my deck. I think good cartridge alignment is absolutely critical, the effect on tracking ability, clarity and surface noise is profound. It is something I always do, or at least check for myself as I have seen cartridges installed well out of alignment by certain less credible dealers.
Tracking weight seems to have a quite narrow window of rightness, I find too light the treble becomes a little unstuck, and too heavy gives a shut in sound with a leaden feel to the bass. I use a test disk to set anti-skate.
VTA is a right pain in the arse with Rega decks, and I disagree with the Rega view that it makes little difference. The only option is to use spacers, which means that quick comparisons are right out of the equation as it is necessary to take the bleedin arm off! VTA and tracking weight are very closely linked, as the thing being adjusted is the stylus rake angle - higher tracking weight affects the angle of the cantilever, thus changing this parameter. On decks that this is easy to adjust it is well worth doing it when ever the tracking force is changed. As a basic rule of thumb the arm should end up pretty level with an average record, though if it is a little out it is normally far better to dip down towards the bearing end of the arm rather than the headshell end. Down to the bearings tends to make things smoother, and the other way tends to make things a little more aggressive.
Equipment supports are really critical, with decks IMHO it is Mana all the way. I respect peoples opinions on the support issue with most components, but I have honestly never heard anything touch Mana under a deck.
Tony.
I don't think there would be any room on the shelf for you. Too many bloody ducks there already!
B4 the Dynie i used a K9 on a Rega 3 for about 8 years which was later installed on the LP12. Also used a Goldring(can't remember which one) on a Thorens TD160B.
Andy.
[This message was edited by rohit on FRIDAY 11 May 2001 at 20:30.]
I agree with you that VTA is important, but the proper way to adjust it in a Rega arm is by using a thinner felt mat (Linn or Rega) instead of spacers reducing rigidity.
Regarding tonearm geometry, the Rega device (as cheap as it is) is the correct one to use. The Linn, Ortofon, Goldring, and Rega protractors I've used are all different from each other. Are you sure yours are the same? Even a millimeter difference affects the sound adversely. If you assume Rega knows what they're doing, look at where the stylus is in an Elys or Exact in a Rega arm. The fixed third mounting bolt is directly above the stylus tip. Using the Rega protractor (or should I say flimsy piece of cardboard) replicates this. The Rega arm is longer than most arms and requires a different setting. You can also do this by ear. By placing the cart farther back in the arm, it allows the counterweight closer to the pivot-point as well as setting the geomotry right. Some cartridge protractors rely on the cantelever being compressed and some are brand specific relying on just fitting around the cartridge body.
Also, remember the Rega bias compensation is set magnetically and as such is fairly inaccurate. Tune this by ear instead of the indicator.
Lastly, if you haven't done so recently, tighten all nuts and bolts on your deck. I recently worked on a friend's P-9 and everything had worked loose.
You may end-up keeping your P-9!!
BTW, I'm currently using a Linn K-5 in a Rega RB-600 on an LP-12. I've tried over a dozen cartridges since my Troika bit the dust a few years ago and the only thing that came close to it was the Arkiv. I live in RF-Central and even though the Naim MM boards hiss, I no longer get the extreme RF problems I did with MC. The K-5 also tracks superbly.
Ron The Mon
I'm sorry if you felt insulted previously. There were two other people (Tony being one of them) who also noticed their cartridge alignment was different than yours, with the same table and Dyna.
Unfortunately, your previous posts and the above one do nothing but say I'm wrong in your theories. If you want to call me names and tell others to disregard my suggestions, then please do so after trying it first. If you eliminated the spacers and tried a thinner felt mat and it didn't work, I can respect that.
You are right in that a mat change won't correct your particular VTA 100%. However, which is more important to the music, VTA or a rigid tonearm? And as I mentioned above, if Rega's fixed position cartridges put the diamond in a certain relationship to the deck, why not try that with yours? Is Roy Gandy right about all aspects of design of his tables and arms but wrong on how to put it together?
Ron The Mon
Milan
I spoke to The Man hisself at Bristol 2000, and he did mutter something about putting it back into production... might be worth contacting him.
It's simply the most accurate, and gives you a graphical representation of your current stylus 'trail' accross the record vs perfect curve - and it does azimuth too.
Well worth tracking down, and makes a joke of GeoDisk and those funny peices-of-cardboard (well dimensionally stable, eh!) with-a-hole-and-a-couple-of-X's-on-them they'll give away.
/rant.
Rico - all your base are belong to us.
quote:
If you eliminated the spacers and tried a thinner felt mat and it didn't work, I can respect that. You are right in that a mat change won't correct your particular VTA 100%.
The problem is that the supplied Rega mat is thinner than any I've seen. (It's much thinner than the Planar 3 mat and somewhat thinner than the standard LP12 mat, for example.) Any thinner and you wouldn't have a mat at all.
Also, wasn't the p9 mat designed to work with the p9's ceramic platter? Use a different mat and maybe you'll open a can of resonant worms.
quote:
However, which is more important to the music, VTA or a rigid tonearm?
Probably a rigid tonearm but the spacers don't seem to compromise rigidity that much. Yeah, using spacers means that the arm is raised up a bit and that the screws don't go as deeply into the plinth but the arm is still securely attached to the table.
Joe
quote:
If you eliminated the spacers and tried a thinner felt mat and it didn't work, I can respect that. You are right in that a mat change won't correct your particular VTA 100%.
The whole Rega VTA argument is a real can of worms, the P9 mat as Joe and Vuk point out is really thin (mine is green, so is obviously better than theirs). The only choices are incorrect VTA, or spacers, simple as that. Rega's view is that VTA is not that important, I disagree with this as I have clearly heard it on decks that provide the adjustment. Rega also actually make the spacers, so they obviously endorse their use, they have to be better than the cartridge bottoming out over warps which would be the case with my current MC10 Supreme and my previous XX1L. I do however wish Rega would provide proper adjustment on their arms, after all the RB900 is not a price compromised product, yet is probably the only arm of its level not to provide this feature. Rega only manufacture basic MM cartridges, so it is inevitable that their customers will be running alternate products.
Rico:
quote:
The Townshend Alignment Protractor is the dog's bollocks, if you have the patience.
I remember using one of them years ago, it was a good product as it mapped the distortion over the whole playing surface. PITA to use though. Used to be badged under the Elite brand IIRC. I would buy another if they start making them again.
Tony.
--Eric
--Eric