The future..??

Don't be too alarmed. CDs didn't replace records as the #1 prerecorded medium. They replaced cassette tape. The market has never been driven by quality and the younger the audience, the less aware they are of better things. It may be to a greater degree in today's world but people are emotional beings and the right ones come around eventually.

I agree js,

I remember in grade school we would by blank tapes, sometimes by the box and at the record stores themselves. We would exchange Cd's and sometimes records and tape them and play them on walkmans or " ghetto-blasters ". Im sure before that it was the same with vinyl for people. And I have a few records from the early 80's that have an image on the back of a skull and crossbones on a cassette with the message " Home Tapping is Killing Music " or something like that. It is just more widespread now, but it means more people have easier access to music, but it also means that their is more of a chance for people to really get into it, and eventually get into better sound. I would think that going back through the decades, the majority of the population thought that spending a lot of money on a proper system was silly, and that listening to anything not current was odd.

mp3's or aac's on my iPod sound better than any walkmans I ever had ! Last week my high-school sweetheart emailed me to say that she found the shoebox filled full with tapes I made her, with home-made covers. She wanted to listen to them but didn't have a Tape deck ! So she found most of it on iTunes..... , and ended up paying for it haha ! I think thats kinda funny, many years later the Cocteau Twins get some money from the blank tapes that I used to illegally share their music !

cheers

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
...

You are considered sad if you have thousands of pounds, dollars or euros invested in hi-fi equipment.
...

I think this one has been true for some time. The last time I remember high end audio being seen as a worthwhile aspiration was during the early 80's. Afterwards (because of the '87 crash maybe?) expensive hi-fi became seen as a frivolous luxury equivalent to $80,000 drapes by most age groups.

quote:

I think this one has been true for some time. The last time I remember high end audio being seen as a worthwhile aspiration was during the early 80's. Afterwards (because of the '87 crash maybe?) expensive hi-fi became seen as a frivolous luxury equivalent to $80,000 drapes by most age groups.

I don't think much has changed - hi-fi is something that most people don't understand anyway - they don't need it to enjoy their music or they may just see music as background "noise" and there's no harm in that really.

Nothing really changes except us getting older.

Cheers

Jim

On the subject of hifi - you have to remember that this industry is its own worst enemy. A PR nightmare if you will.

Even hardened users have no clue as to what they're talking about when it comes to the stuff.

Young kids don't stand a chance.

I think it all depends on whether you actually Listen or not. From my early teens I would lie on my bed at my parent's house and just listen, becoming totally absorbed in the music. From then on it was a natural progression to more 'aspirational' hifi systems. My wife has a totally different relationship with music; it's just background to sing along to while she gets on with something else.

I contend that what is being listened to is MUCH more important than how, or by which method one listens to it.

That gets forgotten here constantly.

I would certainly rather listen to John Zorn and Frank Zappa on a Fisher Price Record Player with earbuds as speakers, than listen to Billy Ray Cyrus and Nsync on a 500 series kit with active DBLs.

I agree, but once you have found what you want to listen to you might as well get the best reproduction you can.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
I contend that what is being listened to is MUCH more important than how, or by which method one listens to it.

That gets forgotten here constantly.

I would certainly rather listen to John Zorn and Frank Zappa on a Fisher Price Record Player with earbuds as speakers, than listen to Billy Ray Cyrus and Nsync on a 500 series kit with active DBLs.

Well said PC, and I would add Celine Dion to Billy Ray, or imagine a duet with both !

quote:

Originally posted by DaveBk:
I agree, but once you have found what you want to listen to you might as well get the best reproduction you can.

I disagree. For some people it is simply about the music. Nothing else matters. Especially younger folk. They cant "hear" the difference between kit, and usually prefer the one with most bass.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Especially younger folk. They cant "hear" the difference between kit

PC - I do hope that's not true. After all, the younger folk have more acute hearing and can spot when the Emperor has no clothes

I took my 11 year old boy to the Heathrow show and I can assure you he was gob-smacked by the quality of some of the sounds ...

... but he didn't like the Swedish sweets

PC

quote:

I contend that what is being listened to is MUCH more important than how, or by which method one listens to it.

A somewhat elitist view....you are deciding what is better or more worthy? Sorry but that is elitist view. Zappa is more worthy than Cyrus? Does that make Amon Duul more worthy than Zappa as they made far more serious music than the crap he produced. One man's ceiling is another man's floor....

This viewpoint simply propogates the view that hi-fi people are musical snobs.

Jim

quote:

... but he didn't like the Swedish sweets

Ahhh, he's a potential Guru fan in years to come then

It wasn't the Gurus actually that impressed him the most (they were playing Coltrane "Love Supreme" when we popped in which is a bit beyond an 11 year old) although he was impressed. It was the Audio Acoustics (because they were playing a very complex drum type jazz thing and he could hear every vibration of the snare).

Thinking about it - forget blind, A/B, home demos ... just put a small child in a room with the equipment and ask them what they think.

Elitist? Possibly.... Educated? surely...

Am I more of an elitist than those who cry about how the kids only want iPods and earbuds?

I didnt say anything about relative worth. I simply said i PERSONALLY would rather listen to Zappa than Cyrus regardless of the method or replay.

I did not disparage anyone tastes or opinions... Maybe I made you feel like an ass for liking Cyrus... but that is on you.

I am a musical snob? I guess so. I've played, studied, practiced, collected, attended everything I can get my hands on. Music is #1 in my world.... (no kids).

I couldn't care less about what you think my viewpoint does to the perception of hifi geeks.

Many hifi people are snobs in more way than one. ESPECIALLY in this Forum. And exactly whom are we trying to impress? Does anyone outside of this worlkd even think for a second about music replay? And how the fanatics are such assholes?

Get off your high horse and give my achey heart a breaky.

Duul??? More accomplished than Zappa... uh ok.

"That is just like your opinion, man"

I know them both VERY well. and I dont agree... but surely Duul II and Zappa were cut from the same cloth. Idiosyncratic, virtuousos galore, prolific.

Duul just isn't my cup o tea.

Although they were rather important... i do recognize their influence on artists I do really enjoy...

PC

It seems I touched a raw nerve and made you use even more use of the caps lock function than you normally do. For the record your did not say "PERSONALLY" (your caps) in your first post - you said "I contend"...so I contended back. It appears that there is room for all sorts of opinion as long as it matches yours.

As for your lengthy diatribe on Amon Duul (or Amon Duul 2)..I think they, like Zappa are musically bereft but is fashionable to claim to like that that esoteric type of music but I only used those examples to illustrate the type of pervasive musically elitist snobbery that exists in certain circles.

I contend that it is you that needs to get off the high horse and I don't need to use caps lock or sarcasm to make my point. At least you agree that you are a musical snob since you have played studied and collected and attended everything.

Me? I'm just a musical simpleton that likes what he likes on whatever level it appeals to me.

For the record, I don't own any (or have illegally copied any) Billy Ray Cyrus music.

Cheers

Jim

PS. Please tell me where I said Duul was "more accomplished than Zappa"?

I did not say "contend"... for the record.

I said "I would rather..." not to split hairs....

I just love music... thats all. Much, much more than kit itself.

And only two instances of capslock is par for the course. I type loudly.



No nerves touched.. all is well. I take criticism well.

Now I have off to study each and every of your previous posts looking for evidence of snobbery or elitism.

Ooops... didnt get very far. Read your "Bio" with your kit described... nuff said.

PC

quote:

Ooops... didnt get very far. Read your "Bio" with your kit described... nuff said.

OK.. Last time I looked this was the Naim forum so listing my kit seemed appropriate. Unless of course it is less musically worthy than yours.

Jim

Jim.... come on buddy...
Just having fun with you.

Maybe I need to use more winkies....

PC

I know....I was just digging through your previous posts about how you can't possibly listen to horrible MP3's and trying to rationalize that against your comments about preferring Zappa on earbuds through a Dancette.

Just having fun with you.... emoticon used for clarity.

Jim

Jim,

I said that assuming I would always choose to listen to music I respect and enjoy.

But if given the choice between what I don't enjoy in hi-res or on an LP12 with a 500 series kit, or something I do appreciate in 128kbps on an iPod, I would take that damned iPod everytime...

Preferred/hated artists omitted as to not disparage others' love for Ricky Martin.

A relevant example are the venues I often frequent to hear "my" music. Horrible acoustics, too loud, bad soundboard engineer, concrete everywhere etc...

Unfortunately, despite some of my favorites' critical acclaim, they are not very popular. I have never seen John Zorn with more than 50 in attendance.

Therefore they are often relegated to venues not known for their SQ.

Did you ever go to Tonic in NYC??? Gone now of course, and replaced with The Stone at about 400 sq ft... no joke.

Very intimate, but most surely not the Whitney Hall or Kennedy Center, or master class studios at my University.

Ricky who?

Chris who?

To quote from "Goodbye Mr Chips,"

"Martin! Martin! Martin?!"

ATB from George

quote:

I contend that what is being listened to is MUCH more important than how, or by which method one listens to it.

I think that clarifies the issue of whether you said "I contend" and the statement above has nothing to do with personal tastes and is clearly about what music they listen to, so IS an elitist statement.

It not be what you meant, but that is what was said.

Ryan