Neat Ultimatuum MFS, 5 and 7

Hi again. Anyone else had a chance to hear these wee beasties yet? As you probably guessed I'm pretty keen on them as a replacement for my Petite/Gravitas and though I'll obviously have to hear them for myself before making any decisions, it'd be nice to hear any comments from those who have heard them already.

Also intrigued by the MF7, but unless my six numbers come up it's a wee bit out of my budget (what with a wedding and so on to pay for... )

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Hi TC,

I have heard the MF7 and think they are really fine speakers. Good speed, musicality and a good "depth" to the sound. Much better than B&W 802s IMHO.

I think they are a very good alternative to Naim speakers. Speakers are a very aquired taste so it is worth listening to them at length to see if you like them.

Dev

Topcat,

Can't you go and listen to them at a dealer or arrange for a home demonstration? The latter is obviously preffered.

Nobody else has your ears or room.

I heard one of this range at the Manchester show a few months ago (I think it was the MF5's).

They were being driven by one of those ECS Stelth amps.

ANyway in the room at the time I heard them they were poor, slow and flabby. Now I am used to SBL's but even so this does not explain the discrepancy between this opinion and the above "Fast" description. I can ony assume there was some drastic room effect at work when I heard them.

Greeny wrote:

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I am used to SBL's

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Fair point. However, I've got a pair of Petite IIIs, and I'd say that they're as fast as SBLs - so I'd be very surprised indeed if Neat's top-of-line standmount wasn't at least as fast as the Petite III (and hence SBLs) and better than the Petites in many other areas too.

Don't know much about the ECS amps - but I believe they're similar to what was known as 'Mana Stealth', which were reputed to be rather good power amplifiers. Therefore, it's possibly either a source- or a room-influenced thing. I suppose room effects could 'slow' or thicken the sound a bit, yes, you could be right on the money there. However, I'm not worried about the 'speed' of the MFS as such - I am sure that it will be more than sufficient, and at least as fast as what I have. I'm really interested in the 'other' stuff, such as how musical it was.

Reductionist, it's part of the plan to get a home demo, believe me, but in the meantime I'm looking for the opinions of anyone who has actually heard them. Of course a home demo is essential in the same way a test drive of a car is essential when buying a new and unknown car, but that doesn't mean to say that there isn't some value to be had by seeking the opinions of others who've already had some experiences with a particular product. Fair point?

Ta,

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

I've heard the MFS. They are a wonderfully open speaker, and fill the room in a way you wouldn't imagine possible. I liked them so much, I am off to dem the MF5s next week.

I have been exchanging e-mails with the good people at Neat. They are incredibly helpful! In any case, please find attached an extract from an e-mail I received from Bob Surgeoner responding to my question on the differences between the speakers:

Quote:

To answer your main question, the Elite is an extemely well balanced
performer notwithstanding the compromises that go with the territory at its
price point. The MFS is not bound by the same costing considerations, and
this is proved by its performance. It has ease, openness, insight and
musical ability which the Elite only hints at.

The MF5 gives very similar overall performance to MFS, with greater loudness
capability and greater bass extension, but is more demanding of the system.
Try and get a listen, but be sure to dem with the same system that you use
(or as close as possible).

Top Cat,

Having heard your system a couple of weeks ago, I concluded that it sounded very tuneful, even-handed, it timed well, and it certainly didn't fall apart with Nitin Sawhney's Nadia plunging bass line. Vocals had a CDS2-esque beguiling sweetness, tangibility, and intimacy to die for.

However, I also felt that it sounded overly smooth and lacked a little bite. The above bass line whilst it didn't collapse into a fart as it plunged, it shied away and rolled off as it (attempted to) plumb the depths.

Lack of bass extension of the speakers was considered a possibility, but I doubt this, and I think that this and the overall over-politeness of your system was not down to your room (except perhaps its sheer size - that's a big room going on there ) nor was it down to the Resolution Audio Opus 21 CD player being too smooth in its presentation. My reckoning is that good as the DNM power amp is, it just doesn't have the grunt to drive those very current-hungry speakers. The amp is well-enough designed not to shut down for sure. What it does instead is gently decline the invitation by the rest of the system to do certain things it just cannot manage.

IMHO, what you need is a pair of speakers that will present a much easier load to your amplification of choice. Those Neats of yours sounded more satisfying last year on the end of those Crimson monoblocks. They weren't as refined or as accurate perhaps, but they were a whole lot of musical fun, and were more involving, even at low volume levels.

Another pair of sub-4 ohm speaks with only 86 or so dB/w/m sensitivity is not a good match, again IMHO. What you need is a pair of Living Voice Avatars or some other very sensitive speaker. I've heard them with kit similar to yours, and the system sounded terrific in every which way. You only have to ask Dr. Randle...



Regards,

Steve.

PS: I also know of somebody with hugely powerful amps who is looking for a pair of speakers such as yours to give his amps something to sink their teeth into...

Well, this is my second only post on the Naim forum, so here goes, Shock Horror Wadia-miester form Groovehandle likes those Neat Ultima 7's, very Nice, I am sorely tempted, But at Bristol they we let down by those average amps that were attacted to them, but I have to say, the build quality and Niceish bass that was eminating from them, was very enticing indeed and was one of the Highlights of the show for me, Now partner then with some good gear, and I feel they will really sing. Sorry for pinching David's slot, but he's off all over the world again, and I couldn't resist mentioning those great speakers thanks all Tone

Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul

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Well, this is my second only post on the Naim forum, so here goes, Shock Horror...

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Bloody hell! Speak of the devil...



Regards,

Steve.

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However, I also felt that it sounded overly smooth and lacked a little bite. The above bass line whilst it didn't collapse into a fart as it plunged, it shied away and rolled off as it (attempted to) plumb the depths.

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Despite what everyone assumes, the Gravitas aren't a hugely bassy speaker - it's tight, very controlled and pitches very well, but then it is intended to roll off at around 32Hz-ish, which is what it did. Nothing about that bothers or concerns me - it's the speakers, I can assure you...

I wouldn't say it lacked any bite, though - one of its strengths I'd argue is that the system no longer sounds edgy - and what I find most interesting is that it's a characteristic that I also found with James McP's ATC-based system - even handed musicality. Far more enjoyable to listen to than what I had before, which though I liked it a lot, was a bit 'uncouth' at times

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good as the DNM power amp is, it just doesn't have the grunt to drive those very current-hungry speakers

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Y'see, Steve, I'm not sure that that's true. Obviously, a 23w amp will eventually run out of steam, but I don't think we were at that point. Maybe there is a speaker-mismatch thing going on, you could be right (and the MFS are apparently easier to drive in this regard) but if there is I'm still unconvinced.

I find it a bit odd that you prefered the Crimson monoblocks - I mean, they were fun without any shadow of a doubt, but nowhere near as involving or musical. I think your rose-tints are coming into the fray a bit

Point taken about drivability - but the MFS are 6ohms and 88db, and if I do go for them I will try using the Stentor to fill in the sub 40Hz stuff (which it does wonderfully, or will do when it is fixed).

The Avatar OBX was always a possibility, but to be honest I would prefer a higher quality standmount than a floorstander for both aesthetic reasons and also financial ones. I'll certainly reconsider it, but I'm still not convinced that there is a problem with driving the likes of the Neat speakers... maybe need to get a second opinion?

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PS: I also know of somebody with hugely powerful amps who is looking for a pair of speakers such as yours to give his amps something to sink their teeth into...

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Well, they're still for sale if he's interested - and remember I also have the Mana stands*

* just occured to me: when you visited last the speakers were on the Mana stands; could this be why you perceive the speakers as lacking bite these days? Just a thought...

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I'm auditioning Chord Odyssey in my system at the moment, and can't believe just how wrong it makes every other cable I've tried sound by comparison (including some which were much more expensive).

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OK, just don't try SPM. It eats Chord for breakfast (but at a price ). I tried Odyssey as a possible replacement for my old DNM Reson cable, but there wasn't a great deal of difference - and the Reson is easier to route. Just a thought for something similar-ish in price to try...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Hello again guy's, see the cable price issue has just reared it's head again, I can give a little bit of minor wisdom, on SPM, I disposed of it for the Townshend Isolda, which was far superior in every aspect, with out the ear tearing terble qualities normaly associated with Nordost, and twas a mere £2150 cheaper for the same equivlent cable, and better bass control to boot, now I know you guy's are strickly against cables save the J.V. blessed varitey, but Nordost does work (in certain systems, It's just vastly overpriced/rated)
as a matter of fact David (My brother) uses it with his Nap 500's very successfully too, not a plug just merely observations. anyway I'm off Bye. Tone

Well Balanced Beings Promote Harmony In Music and Soul