Mark Levinson

Posted by: NigelP on 17 May 2001

I've just read the review for the Reference series (Nos. 30.6 DAC, 31.5 CD transport, 32 preamp and the 33H power amps) in Hifi+. Anyone heard them and pitted it up against a 52/500 combo? The review is glowing and the looks impressive but the price - ouch! Would be interesting to put it up against a 52/3x500 in an active set up. Just curious!
Posted on: 17 May 2001 by Steve Hall
Also, I noticed in the States that the new Lexus adverts show a ML in car stereo! How much is that little blighter.

Also is there going to be a mobile-CDX?

Posted on: 17 May 2001 by Phil Barry
Great sound! Drive Wilson WATT/Puppies with ML gear, and you can every little sound...until you fall asleep from boredom or leave the room in disgust and go looking for some music.

Phil

Posted on: 17 May 2001 by Chris Bell
Hi All,

OK, in the past I have been highly critical of the whole round earth thing. But receintly I got to hear this system:

http://members5.clubphoto.com/mike333118/2_Channel_System/

It wasn't that bad! It was fairly tunefull, had good PRAT, and tons of bass. Is it as good as my CDS2/52/500/DBL system? No. But I can't say it was awfull--my biggest complaint: The metal dome tweeter was distracting and the midrange was a bit recessed. In the past I was conviced that Levinson was a big scam, but I had a lot of fun listening to this system. It had good boogie--maybe it was the Linn CD12 that made the difference? Funny, it sounded alot like my CDS2. And the Wilson Watt/Puppy was simular in many ways to my old ATC50s--they're both studio monitors (ultra revealing).

Don't get me wrong, its still not my cup of tea--Get it?

Chris Bell

PS: the owner of this system was a very nice fellow whom I consider a friend now. He heard my Naim system last weekend and was impressed. Hi-fi is a great way to make new friends and hear new music. I am planning another visit soon to hear more of his vast collection of 45s. Mmmm 45s, the real SACD!
ˇ

Posted on: 18 May 2001 by Dev B
Chris,

What a nice system! I am glad you heard the ML/Wilson system. A friend of mine in NY runs a similar system (with no CD) with a WT turntable and it is truly excellent.

regards

Dev (Naim lover who also likes ML/Wilsons)

ps. obviously the superior sound quality is due t the Zoethecus racks he is using.

pps. i agree 45's into a top record player is awesome.

ppps. what did you think of the SACD?

Posted on: 18 May 2001 by Don Atkinson
NigelP

I heard the ML Reference system [actually using 436s]at the '00 Hamersmith Hifi Show played through Revel Salons.

Simply demolished everything else at the show; before the show; and since the show; and yes IMHO that includes ANY Naim system I have ever heard. I listened to the dem twice and didn't fall asleep at all - not even 40 winks. I was soooo disappointed because I was very tired and, based on reports on this Forum, was absolutly sure I'd get a solid 40 minutes deep slumber. big grin Made me realise just how good real music really can be.

Also heard ML Ref System at Heatherdale Audio two years ago using full 33s through Thiel speakers. Same story IMHO - truly boring - the story, not the system big grin only problem ? £100k [or lack of !]

Have also heard, and am comsidering, Cd39/380s/436s/Studios. Different to cdsii/52/500/[B&W802 or NBLs] but IMHO every bit as enjoyable.

Currently use Watt/Puppies in a Naim cdsi/52/135 system. Best speaker since the Isobarik IMHO bar none.

Fortunately, we all seem to have slightly different tastes and expectations. Life would otherwise be boring.

And there wouldn't be enough MLs to go around big grin

Cheers

Don

Posted on: 19 May 2001 by Ron The Mon
ashley,
You said;
quote:
a 45, if all other things are equal, will sound better than a 33 down to the speed the vinyl passes past the cartridge.



While on the surface this sounds like logical thinking, it is not the case. The reason a 45 can sound better is usually because it is treated different and "unequal".
First-off, there are two sizes of 45s: 7 and 12 inch(though I've seen 10-inch before). I have yet to hear a 7-inch 45 sound better than an LP. There is good reason for this; after once visiting a MoTown cutting and pressing plant, I was appalled at the dirty surroundings(they were giving a tour!!) and lack of care. Seven-inchers are produced by the thousands and the pressing plates are often used beyond what they should be. Often the tapes used to master 45s are of 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. generation as well as being over used. Also, the cutters used for 7-inchers are of a lower quality and generally come with amps that provide extra compression for ease of use. There are exceptions to the rule but this is the norm. If anyone has heard a 7-incher which is musically better than an LP, give me the name and cutting, as I'd like to hear it for myself.
Regarding 12-inch 45s, that is a different story. "All things being equal", a 33 sounds very much the same as a 12-inch 45.
Here are reasons why 12-inch 45s sound better than their 33rpm counterparts;
1) Most of the time the 12-inch 45 is cut with a better quality master-tape or second generation copy. This master is used less as most 12-inchers are produced in limited quantities.
2) Many 12-inchers are re-mixes and actually are remixed better musically.
3) 12-inchers sometimes use better quality vinyl or "virgin vinyl". How to tell? Hold the 45 vs. its LP counterpart up to direct light and see if you can see through it. Though this isn't a tell-all test, it allows you to see impurities in most mass-produced LPs.
4) Often the 45 version is a thicker vinyl(nuff said).
5) The main reason is most 45rpm 12-inchers are cut without compression or very little of it. If a 33rpm record was cut this way, one song would take-up almost as much room as a whole side of a record.
Because of my reasoning above, I think a 33rpm 12-inch single sounds as good as 45(and I have several examples to prove it).

Setting The Record Straight,
Ron The Mon

P.S.
I thought Chris meant 7-inch 45s when he said "vast collection of 45s". Who is this guy if he has a vast collection of 12-inchers? I find it hard enough finding music on vinyl, let alone 12-inch singles!

Posted on: 19 May 2001 by Bob Edwards
Nigel--

I think the question of ML v Naim is purely one of priorities. If your priorities match what Naim does best, even the best ML system will be found wanting. The converse is also true.

For me, ML doesn't even belong in the discussion of musical gear; and I have heard lots of it at people's houses, stores, etc. However, I recognize that that is just my own preference and wouldn't argue with someone who says they prefer it and who have actually heard both. (Very few ML owners that I know have actually heard a Naim system.)

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !

Posted on: 20 May 2001 by Eric Barry
Ron,

What you say may be true of major label hit parade singles, but has little to do with the type of 7"s I have--indie, punk, hardcore, noise 7"s. Here the pressing runs are small, the tapes are probably the masters. Pressing and mastering quality do vary quite a bit, and 6 minutes on a 45 is not a good idea, and some sound like crap. But many receive premium mastering and pressing, and sound excellent.

However, unless you align your cartridge for 7"s, you will not hear their full potential. I've never done this, but the tracing distortion with standard alignment is worst on the inner grooves.

About ML, I've heard a little, but never been impressed. However, not in familiar systems or rooms etc.

--Eri

Posted on: 20 May 2001 by Martin Payne
Eric,

perhaps it's worth pointing out that JV maintained that the Aro tracked the inner grooves of an album better than the competition.

This should also be applicable to playing 7" singles??

BTW, he reckoned this was probably why good cartridges lasted 2-3 times longer than in other arms.

cheers, Martin