Pass Labs
Posted by: ec928 on 20 March 2005
I am currently using pass labs X2.5 preamp and X250 Poweramp with NAIM CD5, driving a pair of ProAC D38 speakers. I am thinking of changing it all to NAIM. have you any good suggestions on pre-amp, power amp and CD player? my budget is around USD10,000.00
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by Reto D
Hi,
I'm using CDS3, 252,300 into Proac's D38. These electonics are clearly above your USD 10'000.--. But you could look for a second hand CDS2/52/135, I've heard of someone that drives a D38 very successfully with them. If you go for the new series I would suggest to at least choose a CDX2/282/250 combo!
Consider your room size and how loud you generally listen to your music. You might then need even a more powerful amp!
Cheers
Reto
I'm using CDS3, 252,300 into Proac's D38. These electonics are clearly above your USD 10'000.--. But you could look for a second hand CDS2/52/135, I've heard of someone that drives a D38 very successfully with them. If you go for the new series I would suggest to at least choose a CDX2/282/250 combo!
Consider your room size and how loud you generally listen to your music. You might then need even a more powerful amp!
Cheers
Reto
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by ec928
my listening area is around 300 square feet. Your suggested combo is GOOD! However, i heard some say that the 282 + 300 is not a good combo, i mean the 282 cannot fully utilize the 300. However, how much does your combo cost?
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by hungryhalibut
You'll see that Reto uses the 252/300 and recommends as a minimum the 282/250. I agree that the 282/300 is not ideal. The CDX2/282/hicap/250.2 is getting on for £9,000 - a lot more in US dollars. The CDS3/252/300 is just under £20,000.
Better start saving - Naim is not cheap at this level, but is excellent value.
Nigel
Better start saving - Naim is not cheap at this level, but is excellent value.
Nigel
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by Reto D
Why not looking on the second hand market, that could better suit your budget!
Do you mean USD10000 plus what you get for your Pass Electronics or all inclusive? You could also replace your actual electronics step by step. Better to be patient in this case... as the D38 are great speakers and deserve (need) very good electronics.
Reto
Do you mean USD10000 plus what you get for your Pass Electronics or all inclusive? You could also replace your actual electronics step by step. Better to be patient in this case... as the D38 are great speakers and deserve (need) very good electronics.
Reto
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by ec928
I will of course keep my D38 and am just planning to sell my Pass Labs System. The step between 282/250 and 252/300 is real BIG!! 
My USD10,000 budget is only for the pre-amp and power amp. Noticed that the price difference between the 282/250 and 252/300 is a double. Is the difference between these 2 systems as significant as the price difference?
My USD10,000 budget is only for the pre-amp and power amp. Noticed that the price difference between the 282/250 and 252/300 is a double. Is the difference between these 2 systems as significant as the price difference?Posted on: 21 March 2005 by cens
This may sound heretical here, but the X250 is an excellent amp. A NAP250.2 might better it in certain ways, but would probably be no better than a lateral move overall. You might want to keep it for now and consider a CDS2 and a 282/hicap, which probably would be around $10k (sort of). Although I've never listened to Pass Labs preamp, they don't seem to be as highly regarded as PL's amps.
Alternatively, keep both PL components for now and get the CDS2/XPS2. You might be surprised by how much more you can get out of the PL gear with a better source. Personally, if I were in your place, this would be the first option I'd test with a home demo, especially since the CDS2 is merely very good without the XPS, but excellent with it.
Regards,
Chris
Alternatively, keep both PL components for now and get the CDS2/XPS2. You might be surprised by how much more you can get out of the PL gear with a better source. Personally, if I were in your place, this would be the first option I'd test with a home demo, especially since the CDS2 is merely very good without the XPS, but excellent with it.
Regards,
Chris
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by cens
quote:Originally posted by ec928:
Noticed that the price difference between the 282/250 and 252/300 is a double. Is the difference between these 2 systems as significant as the price difference?
To my ears, the difference between the two set ups mentioned above is not subtle. And having gone from a 282/250 to a 252/250, and just recently from a 252/250 to a 252/300, I can also say that, to me, the money was well spent in each instance.
Regards,
Chris
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by Edouard
quote:Originally posted by ec928:
The step between 282/250 and 252/300 is real BIG! Noticed that the price difference between the 282/250 and 252/300 is a double. Is the difference between these 2 systems as significant as the price difference?
Why not look at 252/250.2! it's a wonderful combo and the 252/SuperCap makes all the difference!
That said a CDS3/282/250.2 is better than a CDX2/XPS2/252/250.2
Regards,
Edouard
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by kuma
quote:Originally posted by ec928:
I will of course keep my D38 and am just planning to sell my Pass Labs System.
Why would you want to move from the Pass Labs to Naim?
I'm not sure about the 2.5 pre but I think that their amps are pretty good.
I wonder if a Naim pre would work with their power amps?
Naim preamps seem to play *nice* with other makes more so than a Naim power amp. Might worth exploring.
quote:Is the difference between these 2 systems as significant as the price difference?
The system's worth varies by a listener.
I think the difference between the 282 and 252 is pretty significant.
Some folks seem to think that the difference between the 250 and 300 is hardly worth the price.
The only way to find if the 252/300 is *twice as good*, You have to listen to both systems and decide. Altho, I don't think you can ever quntify a stereo. i.e. A product A is X times better'.
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by cens
quote:Some folks seem to think that the difference between the 250 and 300 is hardly worth the price.
I know that are lots of variables at work, but it took me about 20 minutes to determine that the 300 was significantly better than the 250.2 with my speakers, in my room, and for my taste.
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by Cjones
I had a Naim Av2 connected to my Pass Labs 3x. The combo was great. I really liked the Pass Amp and one day when I have a few more 1000 sq ft of living space I might go back. I purchased a NAPV175 and Nap 200 as replacements. I don't really expect any major improvements and have sort of prepared myself to be underwhelmed. I hope I am wrong in both cases.
Anyway, the mixing of the two brands was great. Its the class A/B and associated heat and bulk that caused me change.
Anyway, the mixing of the two brands was great. Its the class A/B and associated heat and bulk that caused me change.
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by kuma
quote:Originally posted by cens:quote:Some folks seem to think that the difference between the 250 and 300 is hardly worth the price.
I know that are lots of variables at work, but it took me about 20 minutes to determine that the 300 was significantly better than the 250.2 with my speakers, in my room, and for my taste.
cens,
What was the system you have evaluated a 250.2 and 300 in?
Posted on: 21 March 2005 by cens
quote:Originally posted by kuma:quote:Originally posted by cens:quote:Some folks seem to think that the difference between the 250 and 300 is hardly worth the price.
I know that are lots of variables at work, but it took me about 20 minutes to determine that the 300 was significantly better than the 250.2 with my speakers, in my room, and for my taste.
cens,
What was the system you have evaluated a 250.2 and 300 in?
I have a CD3 and a 252. I swapped the 300 in for my 250.2. Speakers are Spendor FL9s, which -- although the weakest link -- really came alive with the 300. Dynamics, both macro and micro, rose to a new level, so did depth. The biggest improvement, however, was the way individual voices/instruments were both better defined and more integrated. The spaces between the voice(s)/instruments was even more filled with music, if that makes any sense. And, refering to a separate thread, the bass was much tighter and musical, and feels like it fills the room a bit more.
Regards,
Chris
Posted on: 22 March 2005 by Naimed-In-NY
In response to the original question, I don't think you should focus solely on a new amp and preamp. With this type of money, your existing CD5 should be upgraded. Do not forget the source! Without counting anything for the Pass equipment, you could get a CDX2/202/PSC2/200 for something close to $10,000 USD plus trade-in of the CD5. I think this system would beat the 282/250 type systems mentioned above with a bare CD5. Of course, if you can sell the Pass gear and apply it to the Naim gear, you probably could swing to CDX2/282/250 or maybe higher (don't know the second-hand value of your Pass gear). If you had more money, adding a Hi-Cap2 to a 282 or an XPS2 to the CDX2 would be great improvements. Although I've never heard the 252 or 300, most on the Forum seem to feel that the preamp is the higher priority.
Of course, you really need to the demos to make sure these hypothetical systems are to your liking and worth the money involved. Good luck.
Mike
Of course, you really need to the demos to make sure these hypothetical systems are to your liking and worth the money involved. Good luck.
Mike
Posted on: 22 March 2005 by ec928
quote:Originally posted by Naimed-In-NY:
In response to the original question, I don't think you should focus solely on a new amp and preamp. With this type of money, your existing CD5 should be upgraded. Do not forget the source! Without counting anything for the Pass equipment, you could get a CDX2/202/PSC2/200 for something close to $10,000 USD plus trade-in of the CD5. I think this system would beat the 282/250 type systems mentioned above with a bare CD5. Of course, if you can sell the Pass gear and apply it to the Naim gear, you probably could swing to CDX2/282/250 or maybe higher (don't know the second-hand value of your Pass gear). If you had more money, adding a Hi-Cap2 to a 282 or an XPS2 to the CDX2 would be great improvements. Although I've never heard the 252 or 300, most on the Forum seem to feel that the preamp is the higher priority.
Of course, you really need to the demos to make sure these hypothetical systems are to your liking and worth the money involved. Good luck.
Mike
Just decided and called the dealer to deliver the 202/PSC/200 tomorrow. If it is good, the I will go for the 282/HICAP/250. Thanks for your advice MIKE!
Posted on: 22 March 2005 by kuma
quote:Just decided and called the dealer to deliver the 202/PSC/200 tomorrow.
That's a great combo!
Chris,
Thanks for your reply.
Yeah. That's about right on the difference between the 250.2 and the 300.
