Non bitperfect UPnP

I think that foobar, by default, has a transcode to 320bps rules hidden away in it's settings for plugplayer, and the white-paper mentions using plugplayer, so perhaps that is a possible cause of bitnotperfectness. It's not an obvious setting to find. Perhaps other servers transcode under some circumstances.

OK so lets look at the way people commonly use PlugPlayer on an i-device.

Typically they have a media server somewhere on their network be it on a computer or a NAS( eg i-tunes, Twonky, Asset etc). Plugplayer is used as a remote control to 'talk' to this media server and tell the server to get the music you choose off the Hard disk and send it down the network or out of the computer USB port to the DAC. Thats it!

In these circumstances I can't see how plugplayer can introduce 'bitnotperfectness' into the chain. It is more of a concern if the actual media server is non bit perfect. Trouble is who will admit to that.

I use Asset which comes from the dBPoweramp people so I am hoping it tries really hard to be bit perfect.

regards
Geoff

I didn't say it was plugplayer introducing bitnotperfectness, I said it might be UNnP server. I gave the example of foobar, which by default, transcodes to 320bps when it streams to PlugPlayer.

Check for yourself, if you have foobar.

Foobar > File > Preferences > Tools > UPnP > Server > Streaming Profiles

Select profile to edit: PlugPlayer

You will see the PlugPlayer profile is set to:

Transcode always to 320bps CBR, except mp3, aac, m4a, ogg and flac.

All I was suggesting was that such transcoding settings may be an explanation of the bitnotperfectness mentioned by the O/P.

There are plenty of other settings that may (perhaps unwittingly) affect the data that's sent - replay gain settings, DSP etc.

There are transcoding settings in Asset too, but they aren't set out of the box.

P.S. I should point out that I was using PlayPlayer as UPnP renderer, like Naim suggest in their white paper, not as a control point which is perhaps what you were thinking of it as. I use it to listen on my Touch to anything in my music library when I'm within range of my network. Doesn't seem to have caught on as a way of streaming to the naim DAC though.

Likesmusic

Sorry misunderstood.

I use PlugPlayer on my touch as a renderer aswell asa control point. I have an old Nait 5 up in the bedroom and I use a headphone to RCA converter to play the touch thru' the Nait. Sounds pretty good considering the DAC inside the touch can't be that hi grade. I was surprised.

Actually it is loosing out to a netbook running with WASAPI via dB Renaissance and Asset control which IS pretty damn good.

Actually maybe you could help with a question for me. If you feed the digital output from a ADC into a PC running Windows 7 via the USB port what doea the standard software do to it in the way of mutilation on its way to the HDD if you haven't got ASIO software you can use.

thks & rgds
Geoff

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:

Actually maybe you could help with a question for me. If you feed the digital output from a ADC into a PC running Windows 7 via the USB port what doea the standard software do to it in the way of mutilation on its way to the HDD if you haven't got ASIO software you can use.

Geoff

Not a clue, sorry! Never tried digitisng stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:
Actually maybe you could help with a question for me. If you feed the digital output from a ADC into a PC running Windows 7 via the USB port what doea the standard software do to it in the way of mutilation on its way to the HDD if you haven't got ASIO software you can use.

The input for recording should be bit perfect as long as you don't use the Windows mixer on the input - keep volumes at 100% and lower analogue volume prior to the ADC if needed.

Eloise

Asset UPnP will serve the files as is, unless there is a need to supply as Wave (PS3) or LPCM (XBox) in which case it will decode the file as send out decoded (WAVE & LPCM), even so these formats are bit perfect.

It is possible to set Asset to send out as mp3, in which case it would not be bit perfect, but to do so you would have to set this up manually.

quote:

as long as you don't use the Windows mixer on the input

which entails what? ASIO?

-patrick

Thks for the reply Eloise

quote:

which entails what? ASIO?

Patrick..Yep I wondered that which was why, when I asked, I mentioned 'without ASIO'

regards
Geoff

Geoff,

Just get an M-Audio Transit. Perfect for digitizing. $70 ish.

-patrick

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

as long as you don't use the Windows mixer on the input

Which entails what? ASIO?

I was meaning that you open the mixer and have everything set to 0 or Mute except the input you are working on which should be set to 100%. Having said that, most (reasonable) ADC cards/interfaces do have ASIO drivers though of course then you'd need software which also supports ASIO.

The Transit is possibly a good solution, but it depends what you want to record. An LP for playback on your headphones probably good, but if you're looking to archive vinyl you might want to look at something higher end. Remember the big "cost" in digitising vinyl is the time, so think of the best quality you might want and then look at a step higher. Good options (without completely breaking the bank) would include RME, EMu and Apogee. The other option is to use something like a Tascam or Edirol recorder, transfered via USB to your computer and edited.

Eloise

Eloise that's right. I am planning to archive Vinyl so I want the best I can, taking account of the fact I am in PC land not MAC,

That was the origin of my question in recognition of the fact that I have to use USB to get the digital streanm onto disk.

So I presume I need recording sotfware which uses an ASIO driver to avoid the mixer affect. I am looking at EMU which comes with SONAR and CAKEWALK. I will have to see which I like best of these two,

Anyway thanks for the help folks.

regards
Geoff

quote:

The Transit is possibly a good solution, but it depends what you want to record.

absolutely. None of my needledrops were done with a transit (I dont think), but I did use one for a USB converter for a bit. Definitely look higher up if you can. Spend the most you feel comfortable spending. I was just throwing out a popular, cheap ASIO option.

Garbage in, garbage out goes both ways for sure.

-patrick

Back to the original post ... non-bit-perfect UPnP ... of course it could be all down to your SATA cable ...
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2...-music-sound-better/
http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2495

Ha - the usual answers. I'd put money on the difference being that the low spec one radiates like a bastard and the high spec one has its shielding sorted. No one actually bothers measuring these things so its not suprising when Malcolm Steward comes out with a claim like this that the 'bits are bits, my computer couldnt possibly work etc' crowd start bleating.

Wonder what cable this is



James.

Why has he withdrawn the article? Or is it's apparent disappearance an illusion caused by my SATA cable?

quote:

Or is it's apparent disappearance an illusion caused by my SATA cable?