The *** Pistols were ****

It made me think of the two judges on the muppets... tw

"I totally agree with you......Punk ....music for pissed up peasants."

Uh-oh, Mick's been at the Whiskey again.

Matthew

Hey - Calm your Jets there Ferror.

It's a well known fact that ALL British rock music is based on American music. We know that.

As for being crap? Nah. Sorry can't agree with you there.

Where were we?

Ah Yeah - The Sex Pistols.

You had to see this band live to fully appreciate them I think. One of the finest gigs I ever attended was the infamous Anarchy Tour when it hit Leeds. The Pistols were absoutely brilliant that night - better than the 100 Club gigs - They'd really got their shit together by then and were cooking. Lydon was a great frontman Cook and Matlock could hold down a rhythm and Jones really could bash out those power chords. Crap? Nah. A life changing event? Yes.
I would love to get hold of some the Pennie Smith(?)aftergig party photographs. We all ended up at the Dragonara Hotel afterwards courtesy of the Clash. Couldn't move till the next morning! Strong Sttuff!!!

They used to do that kind of thing in those days

Vive Le Rock

P.

Next year is the golden jubilee. I think you may be right. What a sad state of affairs if not one band could get the Daily Mail up in arms about treason.

John. ›

Bump.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and Happy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
"Never Mind the Bollocks" was the first album I bought and remains one of my favourites.

---

Agreeing with you twice in one day! Whatever next.

quote:

---

With you on The Clash though. Possibly my single favourite band of all time.

---

Agree with you again - I must get some of their stuff on vinyl as I mostly bought it on tape the first time around.

Regards
Steve

Never really saw the Clash as a punk band although that’s obviously where they were initially pigeonholed. They were one of those great bands that defied categorisation. Everything they tried was superb.

The Pistols on the other hand did produce one superb album.

IMHO, the Sex Pistols were an important band historically, but I thought they were dire. John Lydon's pathetic attitude sneer became so predictable and crass that the bloke, especially now in his 40's, is a complete joke. I thought the revival tour a couple of years back speaks volumes for how hypocritical they really are. I imagine that they, as kids in the late 70's, would be ashamed of themselves as 40 year olds dressing as punks to do an old establishment revival tour.
The Damned and Siouxsie & The Banshees were for me the real influence that became 80's goth and helped 90's grunge. Much better bands, and they still sound good even now.
And then there was Bauhaus....

A kick in the eye...

"The Damned and Siouxsie & The Banshees were for me the real influence that became 80's goth"

And are therefore ultimately repsonsible for the likes of Cradle of Filth and deserve to be wheeled out and shot.

Matthew

My point being that music of that genre evolved through those routes to what we now have today. The chorus/flanged guitars of John McGough (?) led to Simple Minds & U2 and so on and so forth.
Don't forget the Sisters of Mercy too

I think Cradle of Filth owe more to Lord Sutch and Ozzy than punk.

I thnk the main problem with a reasonable amount of punk music is that you 'had to be there'. Taken in isolation probably the vast majority of punk was not very good but it represented a wider (rebellious) social scene. I was born in '71 so was too young for punk and although I can see that the clash and a few others were good I have never felt the burning urge to buy their records. I can vividly remeber the early 90's Manchester 'baggy' scene as being a really exciting time in music but hey anyone for the 'Soup Dragons'?

It's John McGeoch man, John McGeoch!

Don't forget the bass player too - Barry Adamson....

I thought Adamson was in Magazine? The Banshees' bass player is/was Steven Severin, and a very fine bass player he is/was too.

I got into all this stuff in the early eighties (born in 1970) without having to have 'been there'. My Gran bought me "Never Mind..." in 1982 for my twelfth birthday. Which was nice of her.

Always thought the Sex Pistol were quite 'bitty', but the sheer nihilism and energy of "No Feelings" and "Holidays in the Sun" hasn't been bettered by anything yet.

Tim

"Bodies" is one of the greatest feck-you songs of all time, and I'll arm wrestle anyone who disagrees.

The Pistols really did change my life. I've never recovered, really, which is a good thing.

-- Ian

Sure The Pistols were crap but Nevermind the bollocks was a milestone in music. It was rebellious and full of energy, unlike the pathetic bombastic music groups like ELP and the like made.It was refreshing in a word. And so were Sioxie & the Banshees,Joy Division, The Cure, The Clash, Devo, PIL and a few mentioned in earlier posts.
In Holland we had Soviet Sex as a "punk" band ...that says it all really.

Yes he was in Magazine (my personal all time faves!) - and he played in Magazine with John McGeoch, who later went on to Siouxse & co,
Sorry for my confusion!....

Just one great Rock & Roll swindle that's all it is, don't make em like they used to though, eh ?
Fritz Von Stillfriggintheriggin:


Piss² Sorry it's big, but the smaller version was CRAP TOO:

Graham Ricketts

Here's one I prepared earlier, crap too, but they don't make em like this anymore innit ?

Fritz Von Stillfrigginintheriggin

First the cheesy reunion and now John Lydon on "I'm a celebrity...."
Says it all really.....Anarchy in the UK?

and on the Forum too...

Who let Fritz out of the Padded Cell?

Fascinating thread!

Here's my spin...

I have to say that in '76, as a "Frampton Comes Alive" -owning 13 year old, when I first heard the Pistols' Anarchy (and yes, I saw the Bill Grundy incident that fateful Thursday teatime), I hated them. It wasn't until '77 that I started getting into punk (specifically the Buzzcocks).

It's a music that feel very strongly about, but the feelings are somewhat mixed. To my ears, the Pistols sound quaint nowadays; only "Bodies" really has the power to disturb, although I concede that the intro to "Anarchy" still sounds incredibly exciting and, in an odd way, threatening.

I think to listen to the Pistols today, we have to make historical allowances – Britain was, after all, a very different place in 1976/77. If historical allowances are made, they sound superb, but do we need to make such allowances for great music? They were also so tied into a specific moment in time that they cease to mean very much in a contemporary setting. That's not to deny their power or influence or significance culturally and musically, it's just that they haven't aged well. Public Image, however ("Metal Box", anyway) still sound fresh and still have the capacity to thrill. No historical allowance necessary.

Interestingly, the only band from that era to still sound disturbing are Throbbing Gristle. As Mark Paytress points out in an excellent review in the current Mojo, there's something about them that suits the crisis-strewn late 70s; but a track like "Persuasion" on "20 Jazz-Funk Greats" still has the power to disgust more than a quarter of a century later, as does much of their music. They still chime with our times.

The Clash I am quite ambivalent about. Any critical assessment of them seems currently impossible, partly, I suspect, because of the untimely death of all round good egg Joe Strummer.

But much of their (punk) music is dated and rather boorish - listen to the first album if you want evidence. What's the best track on that album? Their reading of "Police & Thieves", by a long way. Their best single? The superlative "White Man In Hammersmith Palais". See the thread here? Both tracks are not punk in any strict sensse. Neither are other great Clash moments like "Safe European Home", "London Calling" or the criminally underrated "Sandinista!" album. In short, the Clash shone when they stretched out beyond their punk roots.

The bands who you could say stayed true to the "punk ethic" - Chelsea, 999, Slaughter & he Dogs were mostly hopeless.

Interestingly, the best punk bands were all, well, rather "feminine". I'm talking the Buzzocks, the Banshees and the mighty Slits; compare their music today with the [punky] Clash's boorish bluster or the Pistols' preserved-in-amber culturequakes.

The Slits and the Banshees, both of whom shook off the puritannical shackles of punk almost immediately, should need to no introduction to/for the thinking music fan.

The Buzzcocks, with their rather fey takes on lust, love and angst, were even better. Their debut album is perhaps the best ever created by a punk band, and their run of seven classic singles (and remember, the B-sides - "Oh Shit", "Noise Annoys", "Why Can't I Touch It", etc, were just as good as the As), stretching from "Spiral Scratch" through to "Harmony In My Head", is unmatched by anyone except for the Beatles.

The Damned were definitely punk's pantomime villains, but their first and third albums have a manic, jokey energy that has stood the test of time very well. Try listening again.

But it has to be said that the best thing to come out of punk were the second-generation of bands – many of them from Manchester – who weren't strictly speaking, punk. We're talking ACR, Durutti Column, Cabaret Voltaire, pre-1982 Simple Minds (oh yes!), Magazine, the Fall and most of all, Joy Division; the latter's achievements eclipsed (and continue to eclipse) that of all the British bands that followed and preceded them, except for Led Zeppelin and the aforementioned Fabs.

I used to think it was extraordinary that the Beatles achieved what they achieved in a recording career of seven years; that less than five years separated "Love Me Do" from "I Am The Walrus".

But Joy Division moved from the murky spite an "An Ideal For Living" to the resigned majesty of "Closer" in less than three. Now that really is remarkable. In those three years they produced three singles (Transmmission", "Atmosphere" and "LWTUA") and two albums ("Unknown Pleasures" and "Closer") that are unsurpassed, and, in today's musical climate look to be unsurpassable. Theirs is music, art, of the very highest calibre.

JD, as the members of New Order have said many times, were directly inspired by seeing the Pistols (as were scores of other great bands). Had Rotten and Co. not played the Manchester Free Trade Hall that night in '76, Joy Division may not have happened. So, even if they were, in absolute terms, crap, their gift to music would have to be deemed incalculable.

Nice to be back.

Kevin

Good post Kevin
Back and on form

Yeah good post - especially agree about the Buzzcocks, only saw them once and thought they were great, only surpassed of course by Mr Devoto's Magazine