Building a Library...
Posted by: JWM on 07 April 2007
This Forum is well-known for helping people to music that is new to them.
I'd like to kick this off by asking not so much about music that is new to me, but rather recommended RECORDINGS.
Which JSBach St Matthew Passion?
The 'mk 1' John Eliot Gardiner seemed to be the one when I last looked some years ago, but didn't buy! But there seem to be lots of new/different recordings now.
On the whole, I prefer the sound of 'period' instruments - but not as a merely clinical/technical exercise.
Thanks,
James
I'd like to kick this off by asking not so much about music that is new to me, but rather recommended RECORDINGS.
Which JSBach St Matthew Passion?
The 'mk 1' John Eliot Gardiner seemed to be the one when I last looked some years ago, but didn't buy! But there seem to be lots of new/different recordings now.
On the whole, I prefer the sound of 'period' instruments - but not as a merely clinical/technical exercise.
Thanks,
James
Posted on: 07 April 2007 by pe-zulu
I own a few recordings of this work, and my preference is the version on DHM by Gustav Leonhardt. Human and devoted. The only weak point is the male alto Rene Jacobs, a horrible voice.
Another worth considering is the version on BIS by Masaaki Suzuki, which is more academical but still beautiful and moving.
The other St. Matthew Passions, I own are not HIP except the live version by Franz Brüggen, which I haven´t heard yet.
Another worth considering is the version on BIS by Masaaki Suzuki, which is more academical but still beautiful and moving.
The other St. Matthew Passions, I own are not HIP except the live version by Franz Brüggen, which I haven´t heard yet.
Posted on: 07 April 2007 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
We need Fredrik here!
Posted on: 07 April 2007 by pe-zulu
Gianluigi,
excuse me my intervention. This is not going to happen again.
Regards,
excuse me my intervention. This is not going to happen again.
Regards,
Posted on: 07 April 2007 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
Sorry Pe-zulu!
That was not to say "get out" to you.
You misunderstood.

That was not to say "get out" to you.
You misunderstood.

Posted on: 07 April 2007 by pe-zulu
Gianluigi,
OK
Regards,
OK

Regards,
Posted on: 07 April 2007 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
Good!


Posted on: 11 April 2007 by pe-zulu
quote:Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:
We need Fredrik here!
I would like to see Fredriks opinion too, bu I don´t think, he has spotted this thread so far.
Posted on: 11 April 2007 by u5227470736789439
I have now, and will write a considerration of the three recordings I have owned and one I have not.
I attended a service where it was performed in a true Baroque style except for one big detail[really the setting was religeous] in Hereford Cathedral during Holy Week, which contextualised my views more than anything else.
Later, dear friends.... Fredrik
I attended a service where it was performed in a true Baroque style except for one big detail[really the setting was religeous] in Hereford Cathedral during Holy Week, which contextualised my views more than anything else.
Later, dear friends.... Fredrik
Posted on: 11 April 2007 by KenM
From what I remember listening to the programme some time ago, I would broadly agree with the BBC "Buiding a Library" recommendations:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/cdreview/buildingalibrary/bal0102.doc
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/cdreview/buildingalibrary/bal0102.doc
Posted on: 11 April 2007 by JWM
Thanks for your comments everyone.
But I do have to fess-up. It was actually reading Fredrik's review of the recent Hereford Cathedral performance that prompted me to want to get a recording (finally)!
James
But I do have to fess-up. It was actually reading Fredrik's review of the recent Hereford Cathedral performance that prompted me to want to get a recording (finally)!
James
Posted on: 11 April 2007 by u5227470736789439
Dear James,
This is my second effort. This first was lost just as I tried to post it. That is so frustrating. In short then: I am sorry.
In 1981 I bough the Klemperer set, which is monumental, and quite a tough nut to crack. Very beautifully played and sung, but not a reading that enters into the devotional or fervent aspect very much in my view. Personally, I cannot enjoy Peter Pears Evangelist in this, and it is the part which holds it all together.
After a few years I attended a performance of the music in Hereford Cathedral, and got what the whole thing is about. I began a ten-year search for a recording that managed to be both technically splendid for the spiritual angle and the HIP style angle. Along the way I rejected both Gardiner and Harnoncourt who both made a fine job of a stylish HIP performance, and missed the devotional and emotional aspects far too much for me.
Eventually I found the Leonhardt set, and even taking Rene Jacobs’ voice into account I had found a performance I could listen to as music rather than a run through. I have not heard a finer balance of the "emotional" and the "technically accomplished" aspects, though I mention Jacques below, which has a different balance in this respect. Driven to a single choice I would go for Leonhardt, but please do not overlook the Jacques performance.
Then I bought the live set under Furtwangler with the VPO from Easter 1954. I keep it only for the fact that Anton Dermota is my favourite Evangelist. Not recommended.
Next came another lovely set, and one that stands beside Leonhardt rather well. In 1947/8 Decca recorded the first [almost] complete set under the Bach scholar, Dr Reginald Jacques. Interestingly he is as correct as to Baroque detail as Leonhardt! The performance is generally steadier than Leonhardt, and the recording is obviously less fine, though perfectly adequate, in a very fine transfer by Dutton Vocalion from 78s. The estimable and not too large chorus is the Bach Choir [London] with the Jacques String Orchestra, and the best soloists England could field at the time.
This is the strongest performance from the spiritual standpoint. In fact humanity and spiritual devotion is the starting point, though as I noted the actual playing is very correct as one would expect from the leading Bach scholar of the day in the English speaking world.
But what strikes me is that this is a work that seems to be better served by attending a real performance, which is why the Jacques set is so outstanding even given its age. The perfomance was an annual one with the same people each year, so the recording inspite of its long period of actual recording sessions, over two years, seems to flow with the power of a coninuous live event.
My reaction to the performance at Hereford Cathedral last Tuesday, in Holy Week, was one of being overwhelmed by the power of it. It speaks very directly of mankind’s failings and possibly even more so in our mad modern world. The message is in fact more Universal than the story of the Passion of Christ, but rather a description of human frailty, lack of bravery, and also occasional nobility. The juxtaposition of the noble and the frail in a tragic framework is utterly devastating in its power. For me it is one the key musical works, and probably the most humain of all.
That was still too long, I am sorry. Fredrik
This is my second effort. This first was lost just as I tried to post it. That is so frustrating. In short then: I am sorry.
In 1981 I bough the Klemperer set, which is monumental, and quite a tough nut to crack. Very beautifully played and sung, but not a reading that enters into the devotional or fervent aspect very much in my view. Personally, I cannot enjoy Peter Pears Evangelist in this, and it is the part which holds it all together.
After a few years I attended a performance of the music in Hereford Cathedral, and got what the whole thing is about. I began a ten-year search for a recording that managed to be both technically splendid for the spiritual angle and the HIP style angle. Along the way I rejected both Gardiner and Harnoncourt who both made a fine job of a stylish HIP performance, and missed the devotional and emotional aspects far too much for me.
Eventually I found the Leonhardt set, and even taking Rene Jacobs’ voice into account I had found a performance I could listen to as music rather than a run through. I have not heard a finer balance of the "emotional" and the "technically accomplished" aspects, though I mention Jacques below, which has a different balance in this respect. Driven to a single choice I would go for Leonhardt, but please do not overlook the Jacques performance.
Then I bought the live set under Furtwangler with the VPO from Easter 1954. I keep it only for the fact that Anton Dermota is my favourite Evangelist. Not recommended.
Next came another lovely set, and one that stands beside Leonhardt rather well. In 1947/8 Decca recorded the first [almost] complete set under the Bach scholar, Dr Reginald Jacques. Interestingly he is as correct as to Baroque detail as Leonhardt! The performance is generally steadier than Leonhardt, and the recording is obviously less fine, though perfectly adequate, in a very fine transfer by Dutton Vocalion from 78s. The estimable and not too large chorus is the Bach Choir [London] with the Jacques String Orchestra, and the best soloists England could field at the time.
This is the strongest performance from the spiritual standpoint. In fact humanity and spiritual devotion is the starting point, though as I noted the actual playing is very correct as one would expect from the leading Bach scholar of the day in the English speaking world.
But what strikes me is that this is a work that seems to be better served by attending a real performance, which is why the Jacques set is so outstanding even given its age. The perfomance was an annual one with the same people each year, so the recording inspite of its long period of actual recording sessions, over two years, seems to flow with the power of a coninuous live event.
My reaction to the performance at Hereford Cathedral last Tuesday, in Holy Week, was one of being overwhelmed by the power of it. It speaks very directly of mankind’s failings and possibly even more so in our mad modern world. The message is in fact more Universal than the story of the Passion of Christ, but rather a description of human frailty, lack of bravery, and also occasional nobility. The juxtaposition of the noble and the frail in a tragic framework is utterly devastating in its power. For me it is one the key musical works, and probably the most humain of all.
That was still too long, I am sorry. Fredrik
Posted on: 11 April 2007 by u5227470736789439
*
Posted on: 11 April 2007 by u5227470736789439
Dear James,
Post Script to my posts above...
It seems that I have not had much to say about the Saint Matthew Passion over the years, but it means a very great deal to me:
Try "saint matthew passion fredrik" in the search engine, and some nice things come up. Amazingly I find that I have been entirely consistent on ths subject with the exception of my view of Furtwangler's live 1954 recording, which is on borrowed time here, except that Anton Dermota is so fine as the Evangelist.
ATB from Fredrik
Post Script to my posts above...
It seems that I have not had much to say about the Saint Matthew Passion over the years, but it means a very great deal to me:
Try "saint matthew passion fredrik" in the search engine, and some nice things come up. Amazingly I find that I have been entirely consistent on ths subject with the exception of my view of Furtwangler's live 1954 recording, which is on borrowed time here, except that Anton Dermota is so fine as the Evangelist.
ATB from Fredrik
Posted on: 12 April 2007 by JWM
Fredrik,
It has been a joy to have your thoughts on St Matthew Passion. Whilst I am only just getting round to buying a recording, I have lasting memories of a performance at Sheffield Cathedral (not as fine a building as Hereford, bu a long chalk!!) around Holy Week 1985 or 86.
For me too, the Passion of Christ "speaks very directly of mankind’s failings and possibly even more so in our mad modern world" being so intrinsically bound to the human condition, and not apart from it. Christ IS 'everyman'.
All the best - it's been great speaking to you about this.
James
It has been a joy to have your thoughts on St Matthew Passion. Whilst I am only just getting round to buying a recording, I have lasting memories of a performance at Sheffield Cathedral (not as fine a building as Hereford, bu a long chalk!!) around Holy Week 1985 or 86.
For me too, the Passion of Christ "speaks very directly of mankind’s failings and possibly even more so in our mad modern world" being so intrinsically bound to the human condition, and not apart from it. Christ IS 'everyman'.
All the best - it's been great speaking to you about this.
James
Posted on: 12 April 2007 by u5227470736789439
Dear James,
Thanks for the nice little talk. Poul [pe-zulu] and I have found that we agree about the Leonhardt set, which is no surprise to me! Also thanks for the middle paragraph in your last post.
My brother used to be a farm manager at Downham Market, so I know that part of Norfolk a bit. I might even be moving down that way if things go that way.
I am UB 40 at this precise moment and if nothing shows up in Worcester, and none of my applications elsewhere in the country come to anything, I plan to go self employed as a gardener down there, as I have a sort of base in Holt for a while to get me started...
I also have a friend in Hereford who was a chorister at Norwich Cathedral in the old days. He is a gentleman mmember of Hereford Cathedral Choir now, and it was on his wife's ticket I got into the Passion last week. Sadly she was in hospital with diabetes related problems.
ATB from Fredrik
Thanks for the nice little talk. Poul [pe-zulu] and I have found that we agree about the Leonhardt set, which is no surprise to me! Also thanks for the middle paragraph in your last post.
My brother used to be a farm manager at Downham Market, so I know that part of Norfolk a bit. I might even be moving down that way if things go that way.
I am UB 40 at this precise moment and if nothing shows up in Worcester, and none of my applications elsewhere in the country come to anything, I plan to go self employed as a gardener down there, as I have a sort of base in Holt for a while to get me started...
I also have a friend in Hereford who was a chorister at Norwich Cathedral in the old days. He is a gentleman mmember of Hereford Cathedral Choir now, and it was on his wife's ticket I got into the Passion last week. Sadly she was in hospital with diabetes related problems.
ATB from Fredrik
Posted on: 24 April 2007 by JWM
In the end, I went for this one:
which is a 'historic instrument' recommendation on the Radio 3 list supplied by KenM (and affordable!).
I am pleased about how much of it I know! -Remembered from the one performance I have been to, in Sheffield cathedral in the '80s - such is the impact, I guess!
All the best,
James

which is a 'historic instrument' recommendation on the Radio 3 list supplied by KenM (and affordable!).
I am pleased about how much of it I know! -Remembered from the one performance I have been to, in Sheffield cathedral in the '80s - such is the impact, I guess!
All the best,
James
Posted on: 24 April 2007 by pe-zulu
quote:Originally posted by JWM:
In the end, I went for this one:![]()
which is a 'historic instrument' recommendation on the Radio 3 list supplied by KenM (and affordable!).
James, Where did you find this recording? I have looked for it some time without being able to find it (as well as Max´ St.John´s Passion).
Regards, Poul
Posted on: 27 April 2007 by JWM
Poul -
Amazon (uk) marketplace. £8-ish.
James
Amazon (uk) marketplace. £8-ish.
James