The CDS-II agenda...
Posted by: Top Cat on 21 February 2002
Went to see (not hear) a CDS-II/XPS today. The reason I didn't hear it is that it was a flying visit, really to scope out a couple of things (availability, new price and to have a look at the thing) and I have to say that it's a bizarre looking beastie indeed. But then, it's the sound that counts, and if it's half as good as you lot claim then it's well worth checking out!
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I am planning to borrow said CDS-II/XPS and a CDX/XPS at some point in the next month or so (prior to April) and when the new tax year comes I might just indulge... 
A few of questions that perhaps someone could answer:
(1) What is the warranty/guarantee on the CDS-II/XPS (and also the CDX)?
(2) I am concerned about what I am led to believe happened in the case of the CDS, i.e. parts availability problems, leading to repairs requiring a complete update to the player. What are the weaknesses of the CDS-II in terms of build (i.e. what tends to go wrong if anything) and has Naim protected its customers from a similar thing happening to the CDS-II?*
(3) Is there any performance constraint on how close the XPS can be located to (a) the CDS-II and (b) other sensitive equipment, e.g. preamps? I would probably site the XPS above the CDS-II (on the lower tier of a wallshelf) and have the CDS-II sitting on the top of my 3-tier rack (below the shelf)
(4) Has anyone tried the CDS-II with the better Nordost interconnects, specifically SPM Reference? This is what I use and I am keen to get feedback on whether it's a synergistic mix or whether (like the Chord Anthem that I heard on Monday/Tuesday) it perhaps might not be the best thing to use? This is a v. important consideration.
(5) If I buy a CDS-II, do I get the connecting lead for attaching it to the XPS? What about a standard DIN:DIN interconnect - is this included too?
(6) Have any revisions occured to the CDS-II since launch that might make a new model (i.e. 2002) more desirable than an earlier model?
That'll do for now. Gotta do this right, as I am assured by my dealer that prices will rise by a few percent in April, which in the scheme of a six grand CD player is quite a lot of beer money!
Of course, if I can find a s/h CDX, or CDX/XPS, then I'll jump at that, so if anyone wants one I will pay a good rate for a decent one - contact me privately if you are looking to move up the ladder or across to another brand! This would, of course, enable me to phase my upgrade as the rest of you do...
Yours, bewildered by the magnitude of spending that amount on a CD player,
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Still quite stunned at how much good diamonds cost... 
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
quote:
one of my problems with the 3B Primus I borrowed was a slightly 'fat notedness'.
That's an interesting observation, and I don't want to start an argument here, but I really dislike what I'm calling 'fat notedness' - and that's one of the reasons that I went for the DNM over the 82/HC/250, as I felt that it had a greater ability to delineate 'fat notes' into their respective places. In fact, if anything, I'd criticise the DNM of perhaps erring in the other direction, as its transparency and resolution can make some recordings sound slightly thin.
For this very reason, I have to beg to differ. I respect a lot of what you write, but either the DV amps are incredibly 'thin' (which I doubt, as everyone raves about them) or the 3B you heard was either setup incorrectly, or there was a cable mismatch or something like that.
quote:
So perhaps, just perhaps, ther is a lack of synergy between the CDS2 and DNM preamps.
Maybe, just maybe. Once problem I experienced when I moved from my old preamp to the DNM was that proximity of other equipment (especially PSUs) to the DNM would result in a slight 'fattening' of the notes, as described. Mana also did this, which I found really difficult to cure, resulting in my having to move the preamp from the rack altogether (sitting it on a nearby non-ferrous shelf).
Not wanting to bring up the issue of ferrous effects again (and despite my leanings I am highly ferro-sceptic about it all), I wonder if the XPS could be the cuplrit?
Obviously, for the purposes of the demo, I put the XPS on the rack, on a nearby shelf (but as far from the CDS-II as possible). I didn't think to keep it from the DNM, so perhaps, just maybe, the presence of the XPS (which wasn't present when I was so impressed with the CDX), is the prevalent factor and just maybe my demo didn't allow either item (CDS-II or DNM) to do justice to the sound.
As Steven Toy will confirm, the CDX worked like a dream in my system, and he will also confirm how keen I was on it. For the CDS-II not to really build on that substantially (despite the price), good though it undeniably is, maybe points to other issues.
quote:
I would still consider lack of proper warm up and bedding-in as the most likely reason for your dissatisfaction but I do know how carefully you have built your system. We both know that system synergy is vital, it is pointless just buying the 'best' individual boxes if they don't perform optimally together.
Absolutely. The warm-up thing is almost certainly a factor, but my instinctive reaction is that (whilst I was impressed by the CDS-II/XPS) the very fact that I wasn't really blown away would point to a contribution of different things.
I can state this much:
The CDX worked very well, and nothing in my system changed (setup, cable dressing or otherwise) between that player's time in my system and the CDS-II/XPS, other than moving my CD recorder so that I had a shelf for the XPS as well.
Warm-up may be a factor, but I fail to accept that it is as substantial a factor as would make me ultimately a little disappointed. My original findings were positive, after a bit, but in the cold light of day, I wondered if I was experiencing a bit of the 'emperor's new clothes' syndrome with the bigger player.
Setup of player was as close to textbook as I could tell - and running through the POST confirmed that the CDS-II was not experiencing any errors reading the CDs.
An element of doubt, re: the price, definitely coloured my expectations. As I said before, it's a lot of cash for an inferior format, and maybe reading so much about the player and it's legendary performance built a strawman to which the reality couldn't quite meet...???
Now, Alex, let me just reiterate something you wrote to hammer it home:
quote:
system synergy is vital, it is pointless just buying the 'best' individual boxes if they don't perform optimally together.
Maybe, just maybe, this is it. Assuming for a second that there was no problem with the CDS-II/XPS, perhaps the player is just voiced in a way that doesn't suit my system, which for the record is a DNM-3B preamp with Primus external PSU, Crimson 640D monoblocks, Neat Gravitas/Petite III speakers on Mana, QS Ref rack, Nordost SPM interconnects and Red Dawn speaker cable. Eclectic mix, but one which I know works.
It's a real puzzler, and not at all what I expected. So much so, in fact, that I'm doubting my own ears somewhat. Once before, I ran into bother with a few people because I dared to question what we were all striving for - I for one don't seek a 'PA-like' presentation in my living room, whilst I know that some do - and so I wonder if perhaps my end-goal with CD playback isn't compatible with the CDS-II's voicing and character?
Ah, very deep for a Tuesday morning...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."