The CDS-II agenda...

Posted by: Top Cat on 21 February 2002

Hi folks.

Went to see (not hear) a CDS-II/XPS today. The reason I didn't hear it is that it was a flying visit, really to scope out a couple of things (availability, new price and to have a look at the thing) and I have to say that it's a bizarre looking beastie indeed. But then, it's the sound that counts, and if it's half as good as you lot claim then it's well worth checking out!

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I am planning to borrow said CDS-II/XPS and a CDX/XPS at some point in the next month or so (prior to April) and when the new tax year comes I might just indulge... wink

A few of questions that perhaps someone could answer:

(1) What is the warranty/guarantee on the CDS-II/XPS (and also the CDX)?

(2) I am concerned about what I am led to believe happened in the case of the CDS, i.e. parts availability problems, leading to repairs requiring a complete update to the player. What are the weaknesses of the CDS-II in terms of build (i.e. what tends to go wrong if anything) and has Naim protected its customers from a similar thing happening to the CDS-II?*

(3) Is there any performance constraint on how close the XPS can be located to (a) the CDS-II and (b) other sensitive equipment, e.g. preamps? I would probably site the XPS above the CDS-II (on the lower tier of a wallshelf) and have the CDS-II sitting on the top of my 3-tier rack (below the shelf)

(4) Has anyone tried the CDS-II with the better Nordost interconnects, specifically SPM Reference? This is what I use and I am keen to get feedback on whether it's a synergistic mix or whether (like the Chord Anthem that I heard on Monday/Tuesday) it perhaps might not be the best thing to use? This is a v. important consideration.

(5) If I buy a CDS-II, do I get the connecting lead for attaching it to the XPS? What about a standard DIN:DIN interconnect - is this included too?

(6) Have any revisions occured to the CDS-II since launch that might make a new model (i.e. 2002) more desirable than an earlier model?

That'll do for now. Gotta do this right, as I am assured by my dealer that prices will rise by a few percent in April, which in the scheme of a six grand CD player is quite a lot of beer money!

Of course, if I can find a s/h CDX, or CDX/XPS, then I'll jump at that, so if anyone wants one I will pay a good rate for a decent one - contact me privately if you are looking to move up the ladder or across to another brand! This would, of course, enable me to phase my upgrade as the rest of you do...

Yours, bewildered by the magnitude of spending that amount on a CD player,

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Posted on: 18 March 2002 by Paul Ranson
quote:
Are you or have you ever been married?

Yes. Happily.

It's the being married that matters, not the getting married.

Paul

Posted on: 17 July 2002 by Top Cat
Hi folks.

I have finally decided upon the Resolution Audio Opus 21 as my new cd player. It's quite simply the best cd player I've yet heard, at any price, though it's only a little more expensive than a bare CDX. I can't wait to receive it... big grin big grin

Will report back more when I get it...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 17 July 2002 by seagull
Enjoy big grin big grin big grin

Good luck with the wedding.

Can we have a report soon (of the CDP not the nuptuals!) its interesting to read about non-Naim stuff as well.
Posted on: 16 February 2003 by onlythat
I am thinking of a separate post on this namby-pamby question, but I'll try this thread first.
I too have just placed a CDS2 in my system up from a bare CDX. Sonic impressions aside for another time-- the thing sits pretty close to my couch/listening seat and I cannot help but notice the transport "whirring" is louder than on the CDX.
Since shipping can do bad things, I am wondering if this is normal because there is only a thin piece of glass between you and the laser or if something is going on. It is not REAL LOUD, just a bit louder than my CDX.
Also, how does one know if the suspension is alright-- as NAIM say it is prone to being screwed up and all that?

David
Posted on: 16 February 2003 by davidf
david, I noticed the same thing when I first purchased a s/h cds2. I called dave dever at naim and was told that nothing is wrong but that the puck could be old and slightly faulty-sent me a new puck and things were quieter without question. Still makes more whirring noise than my old cdx but my understanding is that this is normal. Of note, most of the whirring noise was on startup after hitting "play", by the way. This is what got quieter with a new puck. Once the disc gets going, it is pretty quiet, though if no music is playing and you are next to the cds you can hear it. Dont worry and enjoy the music. david.
Posted on: 16 February 2003 by onlythat
Ok-- just as long as it isnt anything NANA needs to hear about. I figured maybe the transports need a lube job or something at regular intervals!?
I guess not. Mind you, it isnt a really LOUD whirring, just more obvious than with the CDX. But this is to be somewhat accounted for by the totally enclosed nature of the process of disc reading with the CDX.
The whirring is indeed worse with certain discs-- older ones-- definitely leading me to believe that disc warp/wear may have something or a lot to do with it.
You know, when you spend big green for a player, you just expect perfection allround and I guess there aint no such a thing.
With regard to the suspension being "messed up", I was just concerned because of the increased noise and how delicate everyone says the thing is (dont move it too much etc.). But I think the suspension is not a circuit board thing but a sprung transport mechanism, right? Hence the transport locks up top and on bottom. Also the disc shelf has a vaguely suspended feel to it-- but maybe my fingers are soft!

If it IS suspended, no chance for this thing to go "off-kilter"? If it can and the CDS2 is that fragile, I might just keep the XPS and hook it up to my CDX, which is a FRIGGIN TANK by comparison!!

David
Posted on: 16 February 2003 by Rico
Here's the gen on the CDSII suspension. If you're going to move it, keep it level when you install the transit screws. Then you can move it with the appropriate care you would normally devote to a peice of expensive electronic equipment. When you set it down again (again, level) you can carefully remove the transit screws.

If you didn't follow this simple advice (hey, it might even be in the manual when moving your CDSII, you may need to consult your friendly dealer.

Life is only as difficult as we make it.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 17 February 2003 by DIL
Re: CD whirring

Had the cover off my Karik over the weekend; it was hopping and skipping on some CD's and I decided to vac around the transport/laser to clear out any dust before resorting to Linn Service. Worked a treat.

Anyhow. It looked to me that CD's spun at higher speed at start up and got slower on higher numbered tracks. This would be the case if the laser tracks at constant speed. Also, some CD's were definate 'wobblers' (eg out of balance) whilst with others there was no noticable wobble.

/dl
Posted on: 17 February 2003 by onlythat
Rico, it isnt ME I'm worried about. I'm MUCH too anal to do anything but follow the directions. It's that the guy who sent it to me said he didnt know there was a SEQUENCE to putting in the transport screws. (i.e. two under the lid first). So, I was just really wondering if he had put the bottom ones first or something, (which he may have) would this screw up the transport and cause noise?

PS-- Just a sonic note-- this thing is the lord's own cd player. It sounds positively phenomenal after a 24 hour warm-up. I too had questions sonically after about 1 hour of play. After 8 hours-- well it's just SICK!! In the best of ways. After 24-- dear heaven!
Posted on: 18 February 2003 by Rockingdoc
CDS whirring is totally disc dependent in my experience. I have often heard so much mechanical din from the player that it had to be broken, only to return to a soft whir when the disc was changed. It is never as silent as any of my cheapo decks e.g. Marantz 63. I now accept it as part of the Naim game.

malcolm
Posted on: 18 February 2003 by onlythat
Yah Malcolm-- that seems to be it. I just bought a new disc and put it in and the thing was damn near silent. Then, with some of my older cds, it whirrs. I guess such is the price for the tremendous sonics. However, I do look at my CDX for sale with respect. It is a very solidly built machine. I wonder how the two compare reliability wise. It just seems the CDX is somehow sturdier.

David
Posted on: 19 February 2003 by Laurie Saunders
This is a fascinating thread. As a non-CDS2 owner I feel like a heretic, though I have had extensive dems of it,(including home dems) I,ve also had the CDi and CDX/xps at home for extended periods. What I do recognise is:

(1) If you like it`s style of music presentation, then it is probably the best player on earth,IMHO.

(2) The cds2 is very obviously better than the cdx/xps

(3) Obviously, a 552/500 will extract the best sound from it, but lower amps will still allow you to easily to hear it`s superiority compared to other models. So I disagree with Mick Parry`s suggestion that it would be a waste to buy one unless you have 52 or better

I have wrestled with my own reaction to the CDS2 for years. I would love to love it....it is clear that other Naim owners do, and I`m sure I`m missing something.....maybe when the CDS3 is out, it will prove to be the machine that I have been waiting for.(fingers crossed)

I would never have thought I could afford a 52, CDS2...As Paul said, it is a matter of priorities...if you prepared to sacrifice expensive cars, holidays, etc then an "average" wage can make that level of kit quite achievable(I justify my expenditure by the money I save by making most of my own furniture, though good woodworking tools aren`t cheap...it also takes time which means I get to listen to my HiFi less than I would like.)

Laurie S
Posted on: 19 February 2003 by onlythat
what do you mean you have to sacrifice to afford this stuff, Laurie??

Just do what I do--- buy used (half price!) and put it on a credit card. Then sell your old bit of kit for about what you paid (you bought it used, after all).

So no more of this foolish "I cant afford it" talk, eh?

Also, It's real late here. I have just listened to Pavarotti's 'Live at Carnegie Hall' cd for like the 2000th time in my life. First time over the CDS2, though.

I cannot for any earthly reason see what your problem (or anyone's) might be with this machine. That man-- every breath, every fat cell and every high note-- was sweating in front of a big Steinway in my living room. It was positively earthy, in the best sense. I just dont know what you're talking about. The CDS2 lives and breathes music.
Posted on: 19 February 2003 by onlythat
Glad I could be of service. The fat man's cells do it every time for me.

Nobody does it like that fat man's cells.
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Laurie Saunders
Onlythat.....the (percieved) problem I have with the CDS2 is that on many of my discs....my present machine gives me a more involving presentation

Laurie S
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Paul Ranson
The first place to look when a Naim system, especially a CDP, is perceived to be underperforming is at the mains supply...

Paul
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Laurie Saunders
Paul

point taken(See...I do have sense of humour)

laurie s
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Eric Barry
quote:
Originally posted by David Legge:
Re: CD whirring

Had the cover off my Karik over the weekend; it was hopping and skipping on some CD's and I decided to vac around the transport/laser to clear out any dust before resorting to Linn Service. Worked a treat.

Anyhow. It looked to me that CD's spun at higher speed at start up and got slower on higher numbered tracks. This would be the case if the laser tracks at constant speed. Also, some CD's were definate 'wobblers' (eg out of balance) whilst with others there was no noticable wobble.

/dl


You've got it wrong. Yes, cd uses a Constant-Linear-Velocity system, but that means that it spins faster on the inner portions--the lower numbered tracks.
Posted on: 20 February 2003 by Audio Visionary
Hi

CD's do use CLV (constant linear velocity)but first the CD player reads the TOC(table of contents)bands at the centre of the disc and as it plays tracks one on up, the laser lens moves towards the outer edge of the disc and the disc is rotated gradually slower as it moves towards the edge. So it spins faster at the centre of the disc and slower as it moves towards the end of the cd.

Bryan