Stereo vs. Monoblocks???

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I have a NAC62 and SNAPS combo that I am in the process of upgrading with a Hi-cap and a 32_5. (My current amp is a NAP140.) Can I replace my 140 in this system with either a 250 or pair of 135's?

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Yes.

Note that amps over 10 years of age will probably need recapping. Contact dealer or NANA for quote.

Paul

Happy New Year to All and thanx for the responses!

Unfortunately, my upgrade path happens to be driven first and foremost by economics, thus Mark's point of "going for used gear when you can get a good deal even if it may defy conventional wisdom."

I couldn't pass up the deal I'm in the middle of (the shipment is en route as we speak) for the Hi-cap and 32_5. The hi-cap should be a big improvement over my SNAPS and the same should go for the 32_5 over my 62 (especially since the 32_5 has just been re-capped in 2002 and my 62 has never been serviced)

I guess that if another deal comes along (for an amp or source) that's as good as I anticipate the abovementioned one will be, I'll have to persue it even if it does defy the accepted conventional progression of things discussed here in this forum.

Indeed, my newly acquired 32_5 may be a (very?) weak link when paired up with a 250 or pair of 135's...but, a deal for either (250 or 135's) may not present itself at a time when I can think about upgrading the 32_5 later on. Also keep in mind my upgrade wouldn't be from a 250 to the 135's - it would be from my 140 up to either a 250 or the 135's!

Can I assume that I may not get the full effect of upgrading my 140 to a 250 or the 135's while running the 32_5, but I will still gain a significant benefit from either of these amps? I can then upgrade the 32_5 at a later date (once I have the $$$) to gain the remaining benefits of the prior amp upgrade.

I will certainly keep the re-capping cost$ in mind when it comes to a choice between a 250 vs. the 135's.

Obviously, a "too good to be true" Naim CD player deal would really confuse the issue!

TNJB

Bill:

The 32.5/Hicap is an excellent preamp despite its age. Once you have this it would be wise IMO to upgrade your source (did you say what that is?) to the highest possible level (financially possible) before upgrading anything else. However, there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of a bargain pair of 135s (if they are available) to replace your 140. However, remember that the greatest improvements will take place when you upgrade your source first, then preamp, then amps.

Paul

IMHO you won't "suffer" from upgrading your amps. But whats the rest of the system? Are your speakers hard to drive? Is you 140 sounding strained? Whats the source? Though the "source first always wins" point of view has definite merits, "fix the weakest link" also makes sense.

My point of view is to "get things I can afford and enjoy and live with for a long time". A pair of used 135's would certainly fit that description. And yes, second-hand prices are coming down. BUT they will fall only farther.

So, I resist simple, unilateral answers and say, it depends....

Markus
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Thanx, Paul!

I know that the "source first" mantra is the general comsensus here on the forum by a large majority and not one I want to challenge. The problem is that getting into a Naim CD source (I have a Meridian 206B and an LP12) seems to be a more expensive "jump" in the upgrade path than a new amp or (eventually) an even better pre-amp than the 32_5. The other thing that I'm very concerned about is the condition "factor" in buying a used CD player. Obviously, when buying a used amp or pre-amp there aren't the physical and mechanical issues that a used CDP presents. From what I read here, one must consider what service & upgrade parts (E.g. - Nextel ring, transports, PS's etc.) are available for a used Naim CDP.

I guess the reality of this is having the $$$ to upgrade the source first.

Any suggestions on what would be the most cost effective (and affordable) route to a Naim CDP?

TNJB

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Originally posted by Markus:
IMHO you won't "suffer" from upgrading your amps. But whats the rest of the system? Are your speakers hard to drive? Is you 140 sounding strained? Whats the source? Though the "source first always wins" point of view has definite merits, "fix the weakest link" also makes sense...

Markus
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My System: a NAC62 and SNAPS (Soon to be replaced with a newly re-capped NAC32_5 and a Hi-cap that are on the way,) a NAP 140 (which doesn't seem to be straining,) a Meridian 206B CDP, ProAc Studio 2 speakers (that dont seem hard to drive,) an LP12/Basik/K9 (yes, I know this also needs to be addressed at some point ) and a Creek CAS 3140 FM Tuner.

Hopefully this wll help you help me!

Thanx,
TNJB

Bill:

The 32.5 is an excellent MC preamp (Do you have moving coil boards in the 32.5? They are not expensive if you don't.). IMO you should upgrade your LP12 to the highest possible level including the best MC cartridge you can afford. IMO a top level LP12 (LP12 with Lingo/Armageddon, Ekos/Aro) will outperform any CD player (I don't believe that this is just hyperbole). Plus you are fortunate to be in NYC as it an excellent source of used LPs. I would forget about the CD player until this is done.

Paul

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Originally posted by Paul B:
Bill:

The 32.5 is an excellent MC preamp (Do you have moving coil boards in the 32.5? ...
Paul

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In regards to the MC boards, I can't say right now because the used 32_5 (and Hi-cap) that I just bought is en route via UPS. I'll keep you posted.

As far as the LP12 upgrades, I fully understand that an upgraded LP12 will outperform a CD player... but, (regardless of the availability of used LP's in NYC) most of the new music I buy still comes in the form of CD's.

TNJB

P.S. - What would the Lingo/Armageddon, Ekos/Aro upgrade for the LP12 cost?

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P.S. - What would the Lingo/Armageddon, Ekos/Aro upgrade for the LP12 cost?

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NANA's website lists prices for new Naim gear. These are expensive items new but less than a CD player that will provide you with an inferior performance to your present LP12. IMO you will need a CDX/CDX2 at a minimum plus the XPS/XPS2 later.

For the LP12, I would advise an Aro or Ekos first , followed by Lingo or Armageddon. An alternative would be to buy a used LP12/Aro/Armageddon or LP12/Ekos/Lingo, which appear on occasion and sell your existing LP12 setup. Finding a used Aro/Ekos alone may be more difficult.

Paul

TNJB--

Thanks for the info about the rest of the system.

I must say I'm not familiar with the Meridian cd players so can't advise how big a step a cd 3 or 3.5 would be or if it would be a step sideways.

Personally, balancing limited funds, age/vintage, performance, useful life remaining and so forth, I bought a used cd3.5. Previously I owned a CDS. Considering the cost, the 3.5 gives you a big fat slice of the Naim sound and prices are really getting reasonable. CD3's are way down but are old enough that I chose not to go that way.

I strongly suggest you upgrade the arm on your LP12 to at least an Ittok. Excellent VFM and performance. My sense is that your funds are limited and your upgrades need to be fairly inexpensive and provide long term satisfaction. The Ittok will do that, as will the 3.5.

Meanwhile, don't sweat replacing the 140. That can come later.

Markus

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I suspect the 32.5 can support a 250 or 135s - Naim sold many of those systems when the 32.5 was top of the preamp line. For me, the 250 was a revelation compared to my 140, even though I didn't think I was stressing the 140.

What arm do you have in your LP12. Ittoks are great compared to Akitos and Basiks, and quite cheap. The ARO is immensely better, IMO, but one can live with a good Ittok for a long time.

How much of the time do you spend with the CDP? For me, it's less than 105 of my listening, so I could force myself to live with something mid-fi - but there's a reason Naim CDPs are so expensive (i.e. qual;ity). A CDS1 at $2500 is a secreaming bargain, assuming a good Nextel ring.

Regards.

Phil

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Originally posted by Phil Barry:
What arm do you have in your LP12. Ittoks are great compared to Akitos and Basiks, and quite cheap. The ARO is immensely better, IMO, but one can live with a good Ittok for a long time.

How much of the time do you spend with the CDP? For me, it's less than 105 of my listening, so I could force myself to live with something mid-fi - but there's a reason Naim CDPs are so expensive (i.e. qual;ity). A CDS1 at $2500 is a secreaming bargain, assuming a good Nextel ring.

Regards.

Phil

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I listed a Basik arm on my LP12 in my Jan.1 post, but there was a lot to read through. Even though I prefer listening to vinyl, CD has become my prime source due to convenience and length of play vs. a 20 minute record side. I'm guessing that the 105 of your CD listening is a typo for 10% (Hold the shift key down! Ha! Ha!) Anyway, regardless of how well spent the money would be on upgrades for my LP12, the amount of time it gets played vs. CD becomes the bigger issue.

You state that "...a used CDS1 at $2500.00 is a screaming bargain, assuming a good Nextel ring." That's the whole point! To quote myself from a previous post, "...The other thing that I'm very concerned about is the condition "factor" in buying a used CD player. Obviously, when buying a used amp or pre-amp there aren't the physical and mechanical issues that a used CDP presents. From what I read here, one must consider what service & upgrade parts (E.g. - Nextel ring, transports, PS's etc.) are available for a used Naim CDP..."

Other than buying used from a Naim dealer (in which you'll pay more $$$,) or a local private deal (in which you can arrange to see/hear the piece before you buy it,) you end up having to have "blind faith" in whom you are making a "out-of-town" purchase from. Good deal or not at $2500.00, that's a lot of money to spend on a "sight unseen" used CDP.

Alas, to be rich instead of so handsome!

Thanx,
TNJB

Actually, buying used Naim equipment is safer than most faithtransactions. Many sellers of high end Naim stuff are forum members.

One was willing to SELL to me only if I had good feedback - since I wasn't going to buy sight unseen the point was moot, but he's well-known on the forum, and I'm sure something could have been worked out (I don't buy a lot, so I don't get a lot of feedback).

May the Basik arm is a problem. I often get up to put on a CD and end up reaching for an LP - not as convenient, but much more music.

A number of people in the NYC area have sold high end Naim equipment via the web. You can't get instant gratification, but if you wait, you'll probably see what you want eventually. Or pay the dealer's premium, and get service for when you need it.

Phil

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Originally posted by Phil Barry:
... A number of people in the NYC area have sold high end Naim equipment via the web. You can't get instant gratification, but if you wait, you'll probably see what you want eventually...

Phil

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I'm only familiar with Ebay and Audiogon for new/used equipment. What other sites do you recommend?

Thanx,
TNJB