Wind-farms? Facts please

I admit to knowing very little about wind farms, but initially, they seem a good idea, if located remotely.Off-shore ones again seem to be a good compromise. If one was proposed to be sited near to my home, noise generated by the props, & generated turbulence, & its possible effect on trees/birds etc may be worth knowing about.
Matt.

It might be worth you spending a little time looking at what happened with The Whinash Wind Farm Inquiry (1 ,2)- I know these a year or so old but you may well get a few ideas as to what to do next. Also a browse over to Friends of the Earth may well pay dividends.

I posed the question when were recently in Lincolnshire/Norfolk. Would these people be raising stink if they were WIND PUMPs? I'm sure the now considered pretty and quaint windmills/of the 18th C onwards permanently altered the local scenery.
FMPOV wind generators look better than high voltage electricity pylons, and I suspect safer too.

Are they in the line between the local TV transmitter or between you and the Sky satellite?

If so be concerned otherwise enjoy the slow majesty of the sails.

For anyone close to the site, I would be concerned about noise. I have no wind farms near me, but I used to visit a site in Germany which had an experimental wind farm as a neighbour. They had 4-, 3-, 2- and even a strange 1-bladed machine which was particularly noisy.
Ken

Noisy.
Ugly landscape.
Not friendly to wildlife especially for migrating birds
Transmission lines, dry chemicals (for batteries).
Generating insignificant power, occupied lot of land.

Yes, ask about the noise footprint. On the few occasion that the wind will be high enough (but not too high) to drive the turbine people living within a few kilometres will experience unpleasant noise levels.

Thanks for the contributions so far.

I've done some web browsing and found some interesting opinions in various places myself. Several fairly respectable organisations seem to be in favour of wind farms appropriate in scale and location (which has not always been the case). Interestingly the RSPB are not actually against wind farms and the bird loss issue seems to be poorly established. They do seem to be a problem with bats however. The TV interference issue has happened at one site only I can find reported, and it was later solved.

As for land usage the companies argue the actual footprint is small, farming can continue around the base of the windmills etc-although I wonder how livestock adapt.

Actual report of nosie nuisance seem to be few and far between-especially with more modern designs.

I've read the main anti-wind farm sites. Their arguments include non-sequiters such as 'these foreign companies are being heavily subsidised to build farms and just making money'. The anti-campaigners also seem to be unconvinced that global warming exists. Frankly those just appear to be cover for the fact that the anti-campaigners have relatively little argument beyond the relative inefficiency (and unpredictability) of wind power and the main basic and unpleasant truth is that they think they look ugly and don't want them spoiling the countryside.

If the site is as envisaged then we don't see it as a terrible blot on our landscape and a reasonable price to pay for cleaner power.

Bruce

I used to live in Lowestoft Suffolk and we had the largest one in UK.

I considered it to be quite attractive to look at and the noise from it was minimal.

It is mounted just off the town centre and on a commercial area very close to the beach.

Does not run 24? as the wind has to be just right, not too weak and not too strong.

As it is turned by the breeze it does not generate turbulence, if it was active ie driven by a motor then it would generate turbulence. It spins too slowly to generate significant noise and any turbulence.

There are plans to build a couple of bigger ones in the vicinity of this one.

They should have built an observation room at the top as this would be a good vantage point to view this part of the East Anglian coastline.

Here in Sydney there is a debate on what to do as nobody wants any new power stations but we happily set fire to noxious dirty coal for power. So Nuclear, Solar, Wind and Thermal under ground power all being considered. There is a very large NIMBY philosophy here.

Even worse nobody here wants to drink POO WATER or in UK speak recycled water. Idoiots will drink from storm water from rooves and stored in water tanks

What a strange bunch here.

regards David

Recycled water - remember the old saying that Thames water has passed through three kidneys by the time it reaches the sea.

Do not know whether it is true !

I thought it was 7.
As for wind farms I think they are beautiful.

I don't think that they are any less beautiful than the older windmills which are considered to enhance the countryside. But they can be a bit noisy, close up.
Ken

Bob,

I think your right with 7 runs through before the sea.

Ken M,

We stopped by one on the North Cornwall coast, near Delabole, and it was running in near silence. Certainly no more noise than the wind itself.

Its clean, low cost of maitainance and non polluting.

Jono

They are all over the place in Brittany and I mut say I've neve 'heard' them unless I went right up close.

Several fundamental issues for me

They are an ugly visual intrusion in the landscape. The landscape isn't the preserve of the local population, but is there to be enjoyed by visitors as well. I accept that some people seem to like them in the landscape - so I could well be in the minority camp.

They generate a token supply - which is unreliable.

The supply still needs overhead lines to connect them via the grid to the end-user.

I have doubts about their carbon-footprint. How much carbon is released per kW of energy generated, taking manufacture, maintenance and removal into account?

But my main concern is the first point, ie they are an eyesore, especially when located in, or within sight of, some of our remote and otherwise beautiful countryside.

Cheers

Don

Pay me a nice sum and you can build a wind mill in my garden. They are very common in Denmark and I've stood under one, they generate very little noice.

quote:

I have doubts about their carbon-footprint. How much carbon is released per kW of energy generated, taking manufacture, maintenance and removal into account?

You will get this with every type of power source, you have to build some kind of construction to produce energy. There are problems with how to produce energy on the occasions when the wind isn't blowing and the wind mill is standing still, though. Stand by coal or oil fired mills doesn't seem like a good idea!

quote:

But my main concern is the first point, ie they are an eyesore, especially when located in, or within sight of, some of our remote and otherwise beautiful countryside.

In a couple of hundred years tourists will come to visit the last standing wind mills. "Such a pity they are coming down. They are so beautiful. What would the people who build them say if they knew." etc etc. This is happening today with the last wind mills still standing in Holland that where constructed to pump water, several centuries ago.

JohanR

quote:

You will get this with every type of power source, you have to build some kind of construction to produce energy.

Agreed, but my point is - that I believe that the carbon-footprint to derive 1kW of energy using a windmill in England is a lot more than most other sources of energy. I just haven't seen any reliable sources for this information.

As to the visual intrusion which IS my MAIN concern - obviously I don't buy into the school of thought that these things are remotely attractive - either now or in two hundred years time (BTW, they won't last 30 years, never mind two hundred.....)

I find it hypocritical that "green" "environmentalists" can promote such hideous eyesores into our landscape.

The largest "wind-farm" that I have seen to date is located in south west Alberta, just north of Waterton, where the prairies meet the rockies. Wordsworth would have had difficulty coping with that sight.......

"I wondered lonely as a cloud.......a host of silver rotor-sails"

Cheers

Don

Don

Have a look at this sorry saga. Seems like corruption on an Enron scale

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hills/cc/

eddie

Some way has to be found to gradually fill the eventual shortfall in oil, even if people seem [generally] unable to accept the phenomenon of Global Warming.

It would be marvelous if Nuclear Fusion could be harnessed, as it would fill the need for electricity, but in any case, unless the human population can be controlled and reduced within the next half century or century, then the environment is going to be transformed beyond current recognition in the persuit of growing more and more food, and developing new sources of energy, particularly as the developing nations are certainly going to increase their demands many times over, even at current population levels. There seems to be no evidence that the human population is going stop accelerating in its growth.

One huge transformation in UK will be the Severn Barrage, and I have no idea how much fuss will be made about that once it gets to really working out how to do it.

I think we had better start to get used to the idea of wind farms, even if they are not so effective as the early proponents have claimed.

ATB from George

quote:

I think we had better start to get used to the idea of wind farms

Sad, but true.

The amount of energy they produce is pointless.
The cost to the environment is priceless.

Cheers

Don

Dear Don,

If you consider the natural environment, it has already been greatly transformed by mankind.

With the inexorable growth in the human population and the seeming determination of everyone to have an ever higher, more resource consuming lifestyle, then this transformation can only continue. I would think that wind farms, while you consider them pointless, are going to but the tip or the iceberg in the future with many more deleterious changes brought about by mankind, and this only becomes more accute as we so rapidly consume the remaining oil...

It is not easy to consider this future and remain sanguine!

AB from George

we're about to have a farm of 60-odd wind turbines built on the outer edge of town on one of the most windswept gadawful hills in existence (usually under cloud) which will, apparrently, "generate power at full potential about 47 per cent of the time, double the international average for wind farms."... "Meridian had chosen Siemens 2.3-megawatt wind turbines for the 62-turbine farm."..."have a total capacity of more than 140 megawatts, enough electricity to power all the houses in Wellington"... the key to the output being above average is the constant wind profile of the site.

Some locals are expected to be affected - I've seen the official line downplaying noise from the turbines. Residents of sites adjacent to established farms north of here report low frequency hum noise niusance.

here's some links you might find interesting:

http://www.windenergy.org.nz/

http://www.eeca.govt.nz/renewable-energy/wind/frequently-asked-questions.html

http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/handle/10063/11

http://www.yes2wind.co.nz/

http://makaraguardians.orcon.net.nz/

the bird myth


cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Rico:
....Residents of sites adjacent to established farms north of here report low frequency hum noise niusance......

The typical Naim user will likely not even notice that.

Steve

One thing I think is worth considering when we discuss the 'eyesore argument' is that unlike most development in rural areas they are very easily removed. Unlike the land spoilage from other forms of electricity generation they can be removed without leaving any real mark, and no waste either.

If the wind turns against this form of energy generation in decades to come the landscape can be restored easily.

I think the construction of new areas of badly designed housing is far more of an eyesore-and a lot more permanent FWIW

Bruce

I heard that each windmill has a concrete base the size of a football pitch.
I spend quite a lot of time in Sutherland, and as far as I can gather most of the county is being turned into a wind farm. Most of the locals are pleased by the income from previously "worthless" land, although the majority of it is owned by Al Fayed.