lp 12 question

The Ittok is far better than the Akito, Basik Plus, or Basik, assuming good bearings and undamaged condition. It is not as good as the ARO; I state that from personal experience. It's probably not as good as an Ekos II or an Ekos I with good bearings - I'd trust Linn and other users on this, but I haven't experienced the difference myself (hence my use of 'probably'). In good shape, it's a very good arm; it was a very satisfying upgrade from my Akito - very satisfying. I wanted more clarity and 'inner detail', and the Ittok delivered.

I mistrust cartridges older than say 4 years, because I believe the suspension deteriorates even if unplayed. Maybe especially if unplayed. No scientific evidence on this, though.

I'd take the LP12 to a dealer for checkout and setup. In fact, I'd try to negotiate a money-back guarantee from the seller if the dealer says it's knackered.

Don't know what phono board is best for an OC5. Can't comment on its quality. Don't know the shelf, but since I got much better performance from my LP12 when I went to a Souynd Org wall mount shelf. I attribute that to wall mounting the table, rather than the brand of the shelf.

Enjoy the vinyl.

Phil

I own an LP12. No experience of the ITTOK arm except through dems and the EKOS was superb. However I have mine on a Target wall mount shelf and that works really well. Also if as suggested earlier you wish to change cartridge try the Sumiko Blue Point Special. At £250 ish it lives up to its name.

Milan

Rob -

I used an Ittok LVII for about three years and switched to an Aro about a year ago. The difference was not subtle.

James is absolutely right about the Ittok - especially the 'splashy' bit. I went with an Aro in preference to an Ekos, which was just too bombastic and artificial.

Ekos/Aro is largely a matter of taste. But Ittok/Aro is a no-brainer.

Tim J

Rob,

Do you use the SME on a Linn? I thought this was a verboten combo due to the mass of the SME.

As far as the OC5, the bigger brother, the OC9, is available mail order in the US for $200, and shipping can't be that much--another option if you like the OC5.

And on the topic of wall shelves, I just put one up, a target, and found it a huge improvement over the Solidsteel 4-shelf floorstanding shelf I had it on (speaking of verboten on the Naim forum, tt is VPI HW19 mk. IV /SME IV). Can't beat a wall shelf for the money.

--Eri

[This message was edited by Eric Barry on THURSDAY 26 April 2001 at 16:36.]

Hi there!

Thank you for the advice and the information about that gear.
Having tried to contact the seller but ebay f***** up the email request...
In his ad it says the deck was recently serviced by linn, new oil, belt and bearings.
1 1/2 days till the auction ends, still leading...
Then another weak for payment and shipping the gear from Edinburgh to Munich, hopefully fedex does not charge a fortune for this.
Is my understanding rigth, that if the ittok boogies I am bonkers/bonker?
What is bonkers anyway? Am a german guy, do not know all terms of technique used on the flat earth.
Although the seller states the cartridge has not been used much I have no idea how old it is.
btw listening to one of the best CD buys of this year, Concierto de Aranjuez with Pepe Romero playing the guitar, a bit soft and romantic but I love the guitar and the cor anglais.
Happy listening
regards
Guido

That anyone woud consider the Ittok to be 'different' to the Aro. Please spare us. This is nearly as bad as one of Hooch's lunatic tirades.

Dev

Chaps

I have a Garrard 401 in a Loricraft plinth(weights a ton)with a RB 300 arm and a dynacvector 17D2 cartridge.

The 401 sounds very good, its a pity more of you don't use them. Anyway the 401 is direct drive and before you ask, since fitting the new plinth, there is no rumble.

The weakest link is obviously the RB 300 and one day soon it will be replaced.

My natural inclination is to go for an ARO but a lot of 401 owners, as well as Loricraft, seem to favour the SME 1V even over the SME V.

Has anyone, any experience of either or able to give a comparision/stregths/weakneses.

Regards

Mick

Rob - I disagree with you on the boogie and timing of the Ittok, it's nowhere near as good as the ARO. As for its limited frequency extremes, I guess that's fine if you like your LP12 to sound like a tranny radio - great PR&T, just no fidelity.

The SME can be fitted to an LP12. I heard an LP12 with a SME V/Troika on it a couple of months back and it was actually really rather good! Very surprised. Yes, the SME was heavy, but we still managed to rack up the suspension so it worked. The IV is lighter than the V so that should be possible. That said, the IV is often regarded as the ideal arm for the Gyro.

James, the Ittok is a prefectly reasonable arm, but it has quite big limitations in the frequency extremes pace and drive departments. It swings very nicely though. It uses a knife-edge bearing which is why it's so delicate.

Mick -

If memory serves, the 401 is an idler wheel design, not direct drive.

The ARO would probably work pretty well on that deck, though I've never tried the ARO on an unsuspended plinth.

I've heard 301 and 401 with SME IV (different plinths) and this was a really successful pairing. The SME brings rock solid weight to the proceedings, but may lose out in terms of swing.

Also consider the Wilson benesch 0.5 tonearm. It's a unipivot like the ARO and has many of the hallmarks of the ARO's sound, in particular its ability to swing. I've heard this arm on both suspended and unsuspended decks and in each case it's had the same swinging effect, and this is why I think the ARO would work on your deck.

I have now played with three unipivots (ARO, Wb, Graham) and they all display this fluid swinging sound even though their design differs significantly in execution.

Regards,
Frank.

quote : I still maintain that the Ittok boogies and times better than the Aro.

"You must be the only one."

Not quite..... Before I went from Ittok to Ekos I waited for the Aro to come on the scene.

I took my guitarist friend Steve along to the dem. We listened to the Ittok as a starting point & yard stick & then tried the Aro. None of us, this includes the dealer giving the dem, thought that the Aro was an improvement. Next the Ekos, this
was quite Ittok like but just better in all departments.

As the Aro was only about £580.00 ( I think) I wish it had sounded good as I would have bought it, but alas.....

I'm sure if the same dem was conducted today the results may well be different, but this was quite a few years ago.

Bob.

Aro vs Ittok vs Ekos vs ???
LP12 dems are very strange things, there are just so many variables. Lets face it, it is rare to find two LP12s that sound exactly the same! Point number two is that the vast majority of dealers don't seem to have two stands the same, so again the decks may sound different. This is all before you even get to listening to the arm.

From my perspective the Ittok is a really good arm, and you can get one with a free second hand LP12 attached for about 350 quid. It does however have a slightly splashy treble, and there is room for improvement lower down too. It does however sound fun and gets a lot of music out.

I have not yet heard the Ekos sounding good. Whenever I have heard the Ekos it has sounded too squeaky clean and analytical. I am sure it’s a great arm, but I ain't heard one work to my taste yet.

The Aro is my favourite of the above by a mile so far, I much prefer it to the Ittok, though have certainly heard it sounding mushy and soft on occasion due to a poor dem. On a decent LP12 it can sound fabulous. I absolutely hate the Aro from a user perspective, the lack of a cueing arm is ridiculous. I occasionally like to throw records on when I am totally off my box, and the Aro would rule this out. The P9 and my older Xerxes are both nicely 'pissed user' proof.

The other arm well worth mentioning is the Zeta, they are sadly no longer made, and some examples had poor quality control, but it is a stunner. To my ears the Zeta gives a middle ground between the punch and dynamics of the Ekos, and the openness and involvement of the Aro.

I have never heard a SME 4 or 5 that I have liked without reservation yet, they just don't do the groove thing from my perspective. I suspect some of this actually comes from the wiring, I listened to a SME 5 arm lead on a friends Zeta, and it killed the groove stone dead, to my ears it made the Zeta sound like a SME. I love the ease of use of the SMEs, especially the 5, but for me sound wise they are all icing and no cake.

Tony.

Tony (and others),

Do you think the issue is with the external or with the internal wiring? The US importer only sells the IV wired with Magnan wire (denominated the IV.Vi, priced at $2750) which many seem to prefer to the V.

I'm using my SME IV with an Ittok arm cable fitted with BNCs. I got the my table and arm used, with a straight wire interconnect, which is smoother but flabbier than the Ittok wire, but how much of this is due to the RCA-BNC adapters I don't know. I did inquire with NANA about an ARO lead terminated for SME-DIN and they quoted something like $250, ten times what I paid for the Ittok lead (used, of course).

--Eric

Well, when I compared Ittok, Aro and Ekos (admittedly over a decade ago now) I found the Aro to be significantly inferior to the Ittok. I opted for the Ekos that day, which I still have and am still happy with. Must have been one of the lucky few that got one with decent bearings.

The emperor is still naked.

[This message was edited by Paul Davies on FRIDAY 27 April 2001 at 19:42.]

"Well, when I compared Ittok, Aro and Ekos (admittedly over a decade ago now) I found the Aro to be significantly inferior to the Ittok."

Paul,

In my last posting I had my very diplomatic hat on, I guess in truth my findings (also over a decade ago) were the same as yours. I now use an Ekos II as the original got damaged.

Bob.

Perfect sunshine today in Munich
Was shopping and then in a "Latte Machiatto" mood which kept me in front of the café and away from the computer.
Another one did win the auction for that lp12...
It was the first sunny day in weeks - how could I resist????
Another lp12 - fully loaded - is in ebay, too.
12 years old with ekos and brand new lingo but with trampolinn upgrade (mainly disliked in this forum, I learned).
Had a bidding rush, dared to bid $ 1350 (that is about 1k GBP!!!! or 3100 DM!!!!!) and still did not match with the reserve price.
The deck is in germany, so shipping will not be that expensive and the seller is a linn dealer, so it is serviced, but: this is already more money than I wanted to spend, but I have to get a turntable....
What to do?
Is it worth the price?
Am I the thane of Glames that shalt be?
Does the forrest come up Dunsinan (?) Hill?
I feel desperate in my castle...
Regards
Guid

I'm back!
I will survive!!!

Now I made my homework - studied all the classifieds in the internet: 4 Linn decks for sale, all still not sold, all with different setups (and as one was from mid march, there should be the chance to negotiate the prices...)
Deck 1:
lp 12, Akito 2, Lingo, Benz Gold - 2.700 DM
Deck 2:
lp12, Akito, Armageddon, K 18 II - 3.500 DM
Deck 3:
lp12, Ittok LV III, Circus, Valhalla, AT 09 - 3.700 DM
Deck 4:
lp12, Ekos, Circus, Trampolinn, Grado MM Gold - 2.850 DM

But, as mentioned in the beginning of the thread:
no experiences for 15 years, so which one is the best (and in addition to the different setups, there is the price difference), not to mention that they are all over the original (reasonable) budget - but I am willing to spend some money.

Hoping for as many replies as to question 1
Yours sincerely
Guido

Just as an aside:

A dealer told me my black Ittok was a rareity.

Should it trade-in for more than a sivler one?

Just as an aside:

A dealer told me my black Ittok was a rareity.

Should it trade-in for more than a silver one?

My LV11 was a black one, I believe you could get a black LV111 one too. My opinion of Ittoks is based on the LV11, if the LV111 is close to an Ekos I would imagine it to be pretty good.

Dev

Thanks mine is the above.

James quote:

"everyone will see and hear that you have a different arm"

But I'm happy with the 3 I've got.