CD5/NACA 5 burn in period or it just **** !

Posted by: fled on 28 April 2003

Due to a broken CD5 I was given a brand new one 4 weeks ago (thanks Audio T)at the same time I changed from QED silver to NACA 5.
But, can anyone shed some light on a problem ?
I have been playing it consistanly for 4 weeks and it still sounds awfull, Harsh on the highs to a horrible extreme and missing all the transient extensions my previous CD5 and QED silver cable gave me, all I can describe it as is Harsh, Flat and dull, how long do I need to wait for burn in of both components to be complete ? or is this it Confused
I am not looking for another upgrade, after spending £5K I would have thought I would get a system that will allow me to play my CD collection without either blood comming from my ears or having to leave the room through bordom.
Phil
CD5+Hi+102+Hi+Napsc+180+Dyn1.1
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by NB
Fled,

Give it time. Your new CD and speaker cable are still beding in. You should find that the sound quality is slowly improving and getting better all the time.

Regards

NB
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Mike Hanson
From my personal experience, I've found that harshness is the biggest challenge to eradicate in a Naim system. There are many things that can induce it. How have you got it setup?

  • What's it sitting on?
  • How are your power lines?
  • Are the Hi-Caps, 180 and NAPSC near the CD5 and 102?
  • Are there windows near your speakers?
  • Do you have two sets of binding posts on your speakers? If so, your cables should be in the upper posts (the ones going to the tweeters).
  • What are the straps between the binding posts made of? You might want to change this to another material. Or you may want to open up the back of the speaker, to see if you can directly connect the internal cabling to a single set of binding posts. I did this, and reduced a significant bit of harshness to my system (and that was after first trying copper straps, then double Naim-plugs in an F-configuration on the ends on the cables.)
  • There a new Nordost Z-plug that works really well with non-Naim speakers. You might want to try these too.

Ultimately, everyone expects something different from their system, and tuning is a very personal thing. If you preferred the sound with the QED cable, then perhaps you should just go back to that. The worst case scenario is that your amps doesn't like it, and fries itself one day (although I doubt that that's going to happen).

-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by fled
Mike.
To answer your questions
What's it sitting on? -
Stands Unique 10mm Glass
How are your power lines? - Off a dedicated Spur.
Are the Hi-Caps, 180 and NAPSC near the CD5 and 102? - Rack positions, top shelf first CD5 then 102 then 2x Hicap, 180 on the base.

Are there windows near your speakers? - No

Do you have two sets of binding posts on your speakers? If so, your cables should be in the upper posts (the ones going to the tweeters). - No, single posts Dynaudio contour 1.1 on Atacama stands

I agree if the QED is more to my taste then I shall swap back, I just wanted to know what the burn in period for the CD5 or NACA5 is before I make that decision.
With the NACA 5 I can hear an improvement in the base extension and control, but the mid and upper frequencies are either non existant or harsh (female vocals in particular sound unbearable), so I am hoping that this is just a time thing ?

all the best
Phil
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Greg Beatty
Unbearable - ouch!!! My NACA 5 was more than listenable from the get go (with Nait 5, LP12, Sony CD, etc. as sources) and just got better.

A few things:

1) How long are the runs of NACA 5?

2) Who put them together? The soldering and use of the Naim-approved connectors is mandatory with NACA5 (OK - 'mandatory' may be strong, but you deviate at your own risk).

3) Do ALL of your sources sound poor? That is, can you determine if the CD5 is the culprit or something to do with the amps/NACA5?

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by fled
Greg.
1. NACA 5 = 7meters each.
2. Audio T Swindon, Naim plugs one end and QED gas things on the other end (Dynaudio 1.1)
3. Only source is CD5 and is only 4 weeks old, and yes maybe its the culprit, but after 4 weeks I would expect it to be 99.99% run in Confused
as an aside I hooked up a very old (20 yrs) Marantz CD player, and it sounded as good (or Bad) as the CD5 with Hicap Mad

Phil
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by shinpad
you're not running them out of phase are you???
Confused

good luck

Graham
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by TommyT
Phil,
Try adjusting your equipment on the rack so that the pre-amp is on the top shelf. You may find that this relaxes the sound a little.
Rgds,
Tom
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by fled
No the Phase is fine, in fact the lower end is very good, tight and controlled and pretty good soundstage, but the mid range has zero extension, i.e. when a guitar string is plucked it sounds flat and lifless no trasient vibrations, and the highs are incredably harsh. I was listening to Hill St Soul and come the 4th track I had to take it off and put some Charlie Hagen/Pat Metheny (missouri) on to let my ears recover.
Phil
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by shinpad
do you still have your QED Silver??? If you do, put that back in and see how it sounds. If it's harsh too, then it's likely to be the CD5 - if not then maybe you just don't like the NACA5.

Graham
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by JosephR
I agree with Shinpad's suggestion. The NACA5 is a darker-sounding cable with warmer treble than the QED. If the system is bright compared to the original with QED, there is something wrong. And, yes, 4 weeks should have broken them in close to optimal.
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by JohnMak
It's crap.
The whole idea of cables (or anything else electrical) requiring time to "burn in" is crap.
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Geoff C
In addition to putting your preamp (as suggested by Tommy) on the top shelf, try the hi-caps on the bottom shelf. I run (from top to bottom) 82/cdx/tapedeck/160/2xhi-caps this way and for me this is the best layout option. It might just work for you!

Regards
Geoff
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by David Stewart
Fled,
I would second the suggestion that you replace the A5 temporarily with the QED. You're used to the way that sounds with your speakers so it will limit the variables and enable you to focus on what is happening with the CD5. When you've got that sorted and it's settled and burned in, then put the A5 back and try it again. It's always potentially problematic when you upgrade two items at the same time.

David

"Beauty is in the eye of the Beer-holder"
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by Lightkeeper
JohnMak !

Did you ever bought a new cable?
Every cable I have had was brand new including Naca5 and all I can say that now I really understand what is the difference between new and burned in cable. I have noticed that if I slightly move cables during cleaning, the sound getting worse after that and again comes good after a week.

Ozren Smile
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by TommyT
Geoff,
Tried your tip last night of putting both hi-caps on the bottom shelf and moved the 250 to below my CD player.
This resulted in a small but worth while improvement - more low level detail and a bit more separation.
Rgds,
Tom
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Geoff C
Tommy,
glad someone is listening!

Regards
Geoff
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Matthew T
Phil,

Try switching the speaker cables and if that doesn't sound any good then get on the phone to Audio T and get them to sort it out. Your ears should definitely not be bleeding even during burn in! That sounds like something is amiss in your CD player.

Matthew
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Mick P
Fled

I notice that although you live in Devon, you arranged for audio T in Swindon to make up your connectors.

I asked them to do the same a couple of years ago and they totally screwed up. They put the red connector onto the negative terminal. Therefore the speakers where totally out of phase and sounded flat.

They did the same with my boss and he was well cheesed off..

It is easy to check.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by fled
Mick.
You dont know the half of it !!!
Yes they did that to me too !!! I spotted that many weeks ago after serious out of phase.
I have now got the cables exiting the amp one goes up and one goes down. This should be ok shouldnt it, the phase is know correct, or do they need to be resoldered ?
Anyhow. Audio T 2nd mistake has led to this problem. read on
I was the first (apprently) in the country to get the PIC upgrade. I took my CD5 into Swindon and they did the upgrade, unfortunatly when I got it home the CD drawer was cathching on the casework (they managed to jack the transport screw insert out of the drawer Eek, so to there credit (although I prefer it didnt happen) they exchanged it for a new one.
Hence this thread.
Yes I live in Devon and work in Swindon - Fun eh.
Phil
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Derek Wright
The speaker cable phase issue is discussed quite frequently on this forum -

on the stereo amps the connections are
looking at the back of the box

Left +, Left -, Right -, Right +

On the 135 the connections are

Neg, positive

so speaker cables set correctly for stereo amps needed to have one lead inverted when connected to 135s

Given that the back of the amps are clearly marked and that the cables are also clearly marked I think the user should do a bit of intelligent observation prior to plugging in the cable.

Crticising the dealer is a bit unfair.

However YMMV

Derek

<<Have you checked your PTs today>>
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Mick P
My secondary system is a CD3.5 (similar to CD5) and if you want a listen to compare, just let me know.

Regards

Mick
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by domfjbrown
quote:
Originally posted by fled:
as an aside I hooked up a very old (20 yrs) Marantz CD player


If that's the Marantz CD63 (the silver toploader) do you want to flog it???

When the music's over turn out the lights
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by fled
thanks Mick, will take you up on that offer, I will try the rack position thing first, and fingers crossed it will be that simple, although I have my doubts. I understand and agree fully with burn in, but rack positions effecting the music Roll Eyes
Phil
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by fled
quote:
Originally posted by domfjbrown:
quote:
Originally posted by fled:
as an aside I hooked up a very old (20 yrs) Marantz CD player


If that's the Marantz CD63 (the silver toploader) do you want to flog it???


No you dont want it ! it not a CD63 and I have to wrestle with the drawer to get a CD in and out, its realy for the bin.
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Bosh
Its a shame your dealer is not working as hard to help you as this Forums members are considering the amount of dosh you have spent on your current system.

OK gepgraphy may be an issue, but surely they could courier you their demo CD5 so you can rule out a duff unit.

Failing that they should be offering to come and see you to resolve the issues. After all it is a nice time of the year for a trip to Devon!!