AppleTV2 as a streamer
Posted by: jlarsson on 11 October 2010
I've been playing around with the new AppleTV. It is really small.
My system is in for service so I just tried in in my bedroom system (Nait2+StelloDAC).
There is no storage on the unit and you cant add disks, USB-memory or similar.
The only way to access your own local content for streaming is via home-sharing in iTunes 10. So you need at least one computer running iTunes. I used it with a wireless network. But it is dead easy to set up and worked with no glitches.
If you have a TV connected you can use the supplied IR-remote. Covers are shown on the TV etc.
If you dont have a TV connected you can control with the Remote app on the iPod, iPad, iPhone.
Airplay (audio only enabled) worked fine and I could use Spotify on the iPad and have it play out over the Stello/Nait via the AppleTV. Same with various internet-radio apps.
My system is in for service so I just tried in in my bedroom system (Nait2+StelloDAC).
There is no storage on the unit and you cant add disks, USB-memory or similar.
The only way to access your own local content for streaming is via home-sharing in iTunes 10. So you need at least one computer running iTunes. I used it with a wireless network. But it is dead easy to set up and worked with no glitches.
If you have a TV connected you can use the supplied IR-remote. Covers are shown on the TV etc.
If you dont have a TV connected you can control with the Remote app on the iPod, iPad, iPhone.
Airplay (audio only enabled) worked fine and I could use Spotify on the iPad and have it play out over the Stello/Nait via the AppleTV. Same with various internet-radio apps.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Eloise
I've read that the new Apple TV resamples everything to 48kHz so may not be the best streamer for critical listening...
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by 0rangutan
Maybe, but it sounds great through my Uniti's built-in DAC.
Equivalent to the Uniti's streaming for non-hires content.
Equivalent to the Uniti's streaming for non-hires content.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Tog
quote:Originally posted by Eloise:
I've read that the new Apple TV resamples everything to 48kHz so may not be the best streamer for critical listening...
Eloise - have we go confirmation of this yet?
Tog
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by BigH47
From the Apple website:-
"Audio formats supported
HE-AAC (V1), AAC (16 to 320Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store),
MP3 (16 to 320Kbps),
MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3 and 4),
Apple Lossless, AIFF and WAV;
Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound pass-through"
For what that is worth.
"Audio formats supported
HE-AAC (V1), AAC (16 to 320Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store),
MP3 (16 to 320Kbps),
MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3 and 4),
Apple Lossless, AIFF and WAV;
Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound pass-through"
For what that is worth.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:HE-AAC (V1)
NICE!!!!!!! I have been waiting and waiting for V1 support! 16bps MP3s? even better!
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by pcstockton
For about $0 they could have included one word and sold a few more of these, "FLAC".
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by fixedwheel
But they are scared of the "F" word....
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Tog
Why? Alac accomplishes exactly the same job as flac with exactly the same quality - although there are those who would fight tooth, nail and handbag to claim the technical superiority of each against the other.
Tog
Tog
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:Why? Alac accomplishes exactly the same job as flac with exactly the same quality
Right, but no one uses it. Sorry.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by jlarsson
Hey, I'm using it :-)
FLAC is only used by old Linux-beards anyway.
FLAC is only used by old Linux-beards anyway.
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:quote:Why? Alac accomplishes exactly the same job as flac with exactly the same quality
Right, but no one uses it. Sorry.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by jlarsson
It's not like I think Apple targeted the AppleTV2 as HDX replacement either :-)
I'm going to check this out (and what really happens to audio when it gets airplayed) the coming weeks.
When used as intended it is a really nice unit that just work and the home-sharing from iTunes has been so simple and trouble-free even over wireless.
I'm going to check this out (and what really happens to audio when it gets airplayed) the coming weeks.
When used as intended it is a really nice unit that just work and the home-sharing from iTunes has been so simple and trouble-free even over wireless.
quote:Originally posted by Eloise:
I've read that the new Apple TV resamples everything to 48kHz so may not be the best streamer for critical listening...
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Guido Fawkes
And Meridian - be nice if Apple supported it. Be great if Naim supported Airplay.quote:Originally posted by jlarsson:
FLAC is only used by old Linux-beards anyway.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by pcstockton
quote:Hey, I'm using it :-)
FLAC is only used by old Linux-beards anyway.
FLAC is used by almost every single artist who offers web site downloads of lossless material.
FLAC is used by almost every major record label who release something for download or on a UYSB stick (Beatles).
FLAC is used by every download site I know of that offers lossless music (Linn, Naim, HD Tracks etc)
FLAC is used by almost every major media player, streamer, and hard disc player.
FLAC is BY FAR the most ubiquitous lossless compressed codec. Period.
ALAC is not natively supported by most software and hardware. It typically requires some kind of patch/plugin.
Apple doesn't even use ALAC in their own online "store" (iTunes).
No one is claiming FLAC has any kind of "technical superiority" although i think it was designed very well. Heavy on the encode side, easy to decode. It is simply more widely and more easily used, that is all.
And that is "why", to answer your question.
-Patrick
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by winkyincanada
What Patrick said. I am sure in the future I will wish I'd ripped to FLAC; but for now, iTunes and ALAC are perfectly fine. Until they aren't. That's why all my CDs are carefully stored.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:quote:HE-AAC (V1)
NICE!!!!!!! I have been waiting and waiting for V1 support! 16bps MP3s? even better!
The sarcasm drips heavily from my screen.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by docmark
I've been showing off my HDX to my brother, and lamenting (sort of) the fact that I can't stream it to other locations at home, so that music is playing in sync in all the rooms, without dropping some more cash for NaimNet. He then went on to tell & show me that with the new Apple TV, and using the remote app on his iPad, he can stream to 3 different locations, all in sync. And all for only a few hundred dollars. And a beautiful interface. I'not sure of the resolution - his system sounds great, but I'm pretty sure most of his library was ripped from CDs, not hi-res downloads.
Having said all that, I'm now off to listen to my new KISS SACD - Destroyer, Japanese pressing.
Happy listening.
Having said all that, I'm now off to listen to my new KISS SACD - Destroyer, Japanese pressing.
Happy listening.
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Tog
quote:Originally posted by pcstockton:quote:Hey, I'm using it :-)
FLAC is only used by old Linux-beards anyway.
FLAC is used by almost every single artist who offers web site downloads of lossless material.
Bit touchy - the key issue is flac is open source and alac isn't - which is why it is used by webbies, artists and hifi companies who don't want to licence the codec. I'm not sure if you need a beard.
It is mind numbingly easy to change between
them and there are no sonic differences.
The choice is one of convenience not quality or politics.
Tog
FLAC is used by almost every major record label who release something for download or on a UYSB stick (Beatles).
FLAC is used by every download site I know of that offers lossless music (Linn, Naim, HD Tracks etc)
FLAC is used by almost every major media player, streamer, and hard disc player.
FLAC is BY FAR the most ubiquitous lossless compressed codec. Period.
ALAC is not natively supported by most software and hardware. It typically requires some kind of patch/plugin.
Apple doesn't even use ALAC in their own online "store" (iTunes).
No one is claiming FLAC has any kind of "technical superiority" although i think it was designed very well. Heavy on the encode side, easy to decode. It is simply more widely and more easily used, that is all.
And that is "why", to answer your question.
-Patrick
Posted on: 12 October 2010 by Tog
Oops not sure if that is my iPad or a bug in the forum code ...my post is in there somewhere.
Flac is free and not supported by apple
Alac is proprietary and is supported by apple.
Otherwise no difference.
Tog
Flac is free and not supported by apple
Alac is proprietary and is supported by apple.
Otherwise no difference.
Tog
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by paveman
Is there any advantage/disadantage using AppleTV2 instead of AirportExpress? Did anybody compare them already?
And: Did anybody compare AirportExpress via Toslink to nDAC against MacBook via Toslink to nDAC against MacMini via Toslink to nDAC?
Regards
Frank
And: Did anybody compare AirportExpress via Toslink to nDAC against MacBook via Toslink to nDAC against MacMini via Toslink to nDAC?
Regards
Frank
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by 0rangutan
Frank,
Yes, ATV2 sounds far better than Airport Express.
Better and more modern hardware and not stuck in a mains socket as a start.
From a post I made on PFM:
"It may well sound different playing audio "pushed" by AirPlay than when it "pulls" via its own UI or Apple Remote app.
Airplay will be genuine streaming and so subject to drop outs and without the benefits of any significant buffering.
When pulling audio, I believe that the AppleTV actually downloads the track into its 8Gb of memory, starting playing as soon as it has sufficient buffer. You can see this in action when you play a movie over the LAN - the progress bar shows blue the parts alreay played, white the parts already downloaded and clear the parts yet to be downloaded. The bar becomes blue (played) and white (downloaded) within a few minutes. I would be very suprised if audio was handled any differently.
Anyway, it sounds fantastic to me and incrementally better than my Airport Express and ATV1. I play out from a Chord Optichord Toslink cable into a Naim Uniti and find that I can't really hear any difference to using the built-in streaming of the Uniti."
John
Yes, ATV2 sounds far better than Airport Express.
Better and more modern hardware and not stuck in a mains socket as a start.
From a post I made on PFM:
"It may well sound different playing audio "pushed" by AirPlay than when it "pulls" via its own UI or Apple Remote app.
Airplay will be genuine streaming and so subject to drop outs and without the benefits of any significant buffering.
When pulling audio, I believe that the AppleTV actually downloads the track into its 8Gb of memory, starting playing as soon as it has sufficient buffer. You can see this in action when you play a movie over the LAN - the progress bar shows blue the parts alreay played, white the parts already downloaded and clear the parts yet to be downloaded. The bar becomes blue (played) and white (downloaded) within a few minutes. I would be very suprised if audio was handled any differently.
Anyway, it sounds fantastic to me and incrementally better than my Airport Express and ATV1. I play out from a Chord Optichord Toslink cable into a Naim Uniti and find that I can't really hear any difference to using the built-in streaming of the Uniti."
John
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by paveman
thx John, I would've guessed that the buffer could be responsible for a maybe better sound. I'm receiving my ATV2 tomorrow and I'm very curios about it.
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Ben G
quote:Originally posted by Eloise:
I've read that the new Apple TV resamples everything to 48kHz so may not be the best streamer for critical listening...
Does anybody know whether this affects only the new Apple TV, or is it something to do with the new Airplay software, and thus also now taking place on older Airport Expresses, etc.?
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by Tog
quote:Originally posted by John Bleasdale:
Frank,
Yes, ATV2 sounds far better than Airport Express.
Better and more modern hardware and not stuck in a mains socket as a start.
From a post I made on PFM:
"It may well sound different playing audio "pushed" by AirPlay than when it "pulls" via its own UI or Apple Remote app.
Airplay will be genuine streaming and so subject to drop outs and without the benefits of any significant buffering.
When pulling audio, I believe that the AppleTV actually downloads the track into its 8Gb of memory, starting playing as soon as it has sufficient buffer. You can see this in action when you play a movie over the LAN - the progress bar shows blue the parts alreay played, white the parts already downloaded and clear the parts yet to be downloaded. The bar becomes blue (played) and white (downloaded) within a few minutes. I would be very suprised if audio was handled any differently.
Anyway, it sounds fantastic to me and incrementally better than my Airport Express and ATV1. I play out from a Chord Optichord Toslink cable into a Naim Uniti and find that I can't really hear any difference to using the built-in streaming of the Uniti."
John
Sounds great - until Naim get their UPnP side sorted and N-stream works properly this could be a great temp solution and more practical than leaving a MBP attached.
Still want to know for sure about the upsampling...
Tog
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by David Dever
quote:until Naim get their UPnP side sorted and N-stream works properly
What are you talking about?
Posted on: 13 October 2010 by 0rangutan
David,
I think that Tog is a little frustrated that the Uniti ecosystem isn't quite as nicely integrated, reliable and simple to use as Apple's.
In fairness, they are different vendors in differing markets, it's just that, for anyone who has got used to Apple, it is difficult to ignore how much better Naim's could (and hopefully will) be.
John
I think that Tog is a little frustrated that the Uniti ecosystem isn't quite as nicely integrated, reliable and simple to use as Apple's.
In fairness, they are different vendors in differing markets, it's just that, for anyone who has got used to Apple, it is difficult to ignore how much better Naim's could (and hopefully will) be.
John