Fraim in MAY

Posted by: Paul Stephenson on 23 April 2001

We expect around 200 dealers to have the Fraim in their stores by the end of May, after successful shows in Bristol, Toronto and the forthcoming show in New York its full steam ahead. If our suppliers don't let us down some great sounds will a bound. Very poetic I think! Look forward to your views.

Posted on: 01 May 2001 by Rob Doorack

Will Naim be exhibiting in their own room or as part of Innovative Audio's room(s)?

Posted on: 01 May 2001 by David Dever

quote:
I received an invitation to the NY show, but as it didn't mention Naim, I wasn’t going to go. As you will be there, and will be able to demo the Fraim, I will come on down. I am quite interested in replacing my finest 15 year old IKEA stand with one of a different color, and reduced ferrous composition.
By the way, I checked your link to the show and it still does not include Naim. Can you prod the show organizers and get them to update the exhibitors list?
--and--
Will Naim be exhibiting in their own room or as part of Innovative Audio's room(s)?

We're helping out Innovative in one of their rooms--the new speakers and the Fraim have arrived intact and are breaking in and settling in, respectively.

Dave Dever, NANA

P.S. Thanks, Paul for the set-up tips at 9 p.m.

Some Fraim observations:

- bottom spikes are sharp enough to go right through the carpet mat with just a tap

- lots of machined fittings on this stand, don't lose any parts!

- one can connect each piece of gear before installing the next (above) level; this will certainly change my working methods of system setup, i.e., back (amp & speaker wires) to front (sources)

- temperature sensitive, takes less time to settle when ambient temperature is warmer (yes, the A/C kicked in just as I re-assembled the stand!)

- compact, these stands are. Look at the pictures, then figure about 15% visually smaller in the flesh--these wouldn't dominate a small apartment room, at all...

[This message was edited by David Dever, NANA on WEDNESDAY 02 May 2001 at 01:28.]

Posted on: 01 May 2001 by Andrew Randle

Dave,

Was there a model-name on the box of those new Naim loudspeakers???????????

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 01 May 2001 by rohit

Posted on: 01 May 2001 by Jez Quigley

Price it at a level where all Naim users can have one. It will quickly become the defacto standard for putting all hi-fi on, cause a sensantion in the hi-fi press, and have the knock on effect of selling more Naim boxes, and we Naimies will love you for it = even more sales. Like many other users I need 2 stacks and would buy them straight away, but at £2000+ I will go for other options.

Posted on: 02 May 2001 by Alex S.

Quote:

'I haven't read so far anyone saying that a Supercap is overpriced and it might just be that the FRAIM gives a bigger bang to an 82 than a Supercap or an XPS on a CDX!' . . .

So does it?

ps I think the Supercap is overpriced.

Posted on: 02 May 2001 by Alex S.

Thanks Dave

Just joking about Supercap but. .

If I include all boxes + LP12

I will need two 5 tier Fraims - That's 3400 quid!

I could easily get 2nd hand Supercap & XPS for that and by selling extra Hi-Cap + CDPS I'd have enough left over for a holiday!

Posted on: 02 May 2001 by Alex S.

Dave

Wasn't planning in using shelves to house family photos and a vase of tulips

I need to accomodate:

LP12, Lingo (I'm sure many would say it deserves a shelf), Tape Deck, CDX, CDPS, 82, Hi- Cap, Hi - Cap (again many would advocate not sticking them close together on one shelf), 250, 250.

Catch 22 is if I buy Supercap I gain a shelf, but, if I've bought the shelves I can't afford the Supercap.

Regards Alex

Posted on: 02 May 2001 by Chris West

First of all, when you handle the Fraim you know right away it's not a typical stand with shelving. I would describe it as a composite set of accurately made and well finished parts, that integrates your system elegantly into a compact space - whilst isolating it in a way that is ....well, the Naim way. Visually, the Fraim is clean and good looking. Closer scrutiny reveals all kinds of mechanical details that say this is another Naim engineered product with some real thought put into it. Imagine that, a Hi-Fi support system that complements the principles that Naim gear is known for.

Chris, (Naim USA)

[This message was edited by Chris West on THURSDAY 03 May 2001 at 07:06.]

Posted on: 03 May 2001 by Steve Crouch

I already have tons of Mana kit and although it sounds great I would prefer something more pleasing to the eye. I certainly like the look of the Fraim and do not find the price offensive as I've spent a not inconsiderable amount already. The Fraim also looks more value for money than my current support. However, I value sound quality above all else - I didn't consider the look of the Naim amps at all when I first auditioned them, it was the performance that mattered. So, to my problem. How on earth am I going to get to hear the Fraim at home and compare it to my stand. My dealer has said that they may not stock the Fraim and therefore it will be an order only item. Would Naim be willing to let me have a weekend loan at some stage?

I would think that there are already many Naim customers in the same predicament - or from Naims point of view many potential customers just gagging to have a stand that will sound stunning but with looks to match who will think twice because of not being able to hear whether it's any better.

All Naim's products before the Fraim could be demmed against rivals, is this going to be different?

Steve

Posted on: 03 May 2001 by David Dever

quote:
How on earth am I going to get to hear the Fraim at home and compare it to my stand. My dealer has said that they may not stock the Fraim and therefore it will be an order only item. Would Naim be willing to let me have a weekend loan at some stage?
All Naim's products before the Fraim could be demmed against rivals, is this going to be different?

Keep in mind that the settling time, as well as the need to re-install your system onto the stands and let it warm up, etc. is part of the equation...though it'd be safe to say that you could certainly extrapolate the results of a dem with evn the most basic Naim kit (it's that obvious) provided your dealer has patience enough to set up the gear on the stand and let it settle, as that's really a significant part of the concept.

As far as "order only", you need to specify the wood veneer and the pillar finish, as your decorating needs (what an awful way to say "preference") may be different, say, cherry shelves with black spacer legs...

Dave Dever, NANA

[This message was edited by David Dever, NANA on THURSDAY 03 May 2001 at 11:40.]

Posted on: 03 May 2001 by Steve Crouch

David, thanks for your comments. So how would you desribe the sound of equipment placed on a Fraim compared to Mana? You seem confident of its superiority for me to place an order, although I recall you not paricularly liking the Mana presentation?

Steve

Posted on: 03 May 2001 by Steve Crouch

David

You suggest that the source first will be equally relevant to the Fraim so would you say a Fraim with CDX/XPS would out perform CDS2 on Mana or QS? I'm currently considering CDS2 upgrade having optimised my support (or so I thought!!). Rest of kit is 52/supercap, 135's and Kan 1's (also LP12 etc).

Finally, to all...

The LP12 seems to work with Mana better than any other wall shelf/stand. Has anyone used it on the Fraim and will a wall shelf option ever be available?

Steve

Posted on: 03 May 2001 by Nigel Cavendish

A question - how many people expressing an opinion here as to the sonic benefits of a fraim have actually heard one, let alone heard one in direct comparison to any other?

cheers

Nigel

Posted on: 03 May 2001 by Alex S.

What supports does/will the company expect/advise entry level Naimers to put their kit on?

(This is not an athletics question)

Posted on: 03 May 2001 by Paul Stephenson

No change in the story, buy the best kit you can and then decide on suitable racking to fit your spec, sound and style and pocket etc.
Depending on budget, from Ikea tables to target,ash, base, hutter, mana etc Talk to your dealer and buy after demonstration.

Posted on: 04 May 2001 by David Dever

Chris West is packing the Fraim for NYC as I type this...

System parameters:

CD5 / NAC 112 / FLATCAP 2 / NAP 150 / new speakers on three-tier (four shelf) Fraim; dem room at NANA has carpet + pad over poured concrete floor, acoustic tile ceiling, 11' x 14'.

Disclaimers:
- have not tried CD player with metal feet
- have not tried LP12 or other 'table
- have not tried on wood floors
- too few rack elements to try larger system, e.g., CDS 2 / XPS / NAC 52 / SUPERCAP + NAP 500 / PS

Did try speakers on CD3.5 / NAC 102 / HICAP / 250 repair system before setting up Series 5 system, and after with CDX + same system on BASE.

Statement:
This system goes black like you've never heard one, and I heard musical nuance and detail on discs (that I listen to everyday, nearly) that I did not know existed. Though a NAP 500 may be the best amp Naim's ever made, you'd be a fool not to have these racks set up first, based on what they did for an entry-level separates system. (Familiar rant, anyone?)

If you've ever heard a glass + veneered MDF + metal stand do things right, you'll definitely want to try this; if you've ever heard a glass + metal stand do something right, this will fill in the other harmonics; if you prefer the sound of MDF shelves on a metal stand, you'll hear what you miss without glass shelves, without having your head sheared off in the process.

BTW, anyone know of any other glass shelf + metal upright + real wood-veneered sub-shelf stands for comparison?

Dave Dever, NANA

[This message was edited by David Dever, NANA on FRIDAY 04 May 2001 at 22:08.]

[This message was edited by Paul Stephenson on SATURDAY 05 May 2001 at 09:23.]

Posted on: 04 May 2001 by Sproggle

quote:
This system goes black like you've never heard one, and I heard musical nuance and detail on discs (that I listen to everyday, nearly) that I did not know existed.

quote:
...if you prefer the sound of MDF shelves on a metal stand, you'll hear what you miss without glass shelves, without having your head sheared off in the process.

That's a sound to dream about - or, if like me you have insomnia, it's a sound to daydream about...

--Jeremy

Posted on: 04 May 2001 by David Dever

quote:
ZZZZZZZZZZ or not...

Sorry, I was half-trying to be comic--of course the stand works perfectly fine--if it didn't, you'd think I'd have no response, right...?

It's still too early to tell--let's see the packaging first...

Dave Dever, NANA

Posted on: 04 May 2001 by Chris West

quote:
It would be interesting to get some naim america opinions on performance...

As stands go, this is the closest I've heard to no "sound". There is no sense of the Fraim interfering with the performance of the gear on it. The system just sings better...

I want one.

Chris.

Posted on: 05 May 2001 by Alex S.

I'm not quite clear. If I wanted to Fraim one piece of equipment (CDX) would I need just the lower level (500UKP) or the lower level plus one shelf (800UKP)?

ps. Despite my rantings to the contrary I always suspected that the Fraim would represent sonic VFM.

Thanks in advance A.

Posted on: 05 May 2001 by Allan Probin

quote:
This system goes black like you've never heard one, and I heard musical nuance and detail on discs (that I listen to everyday, nearly) that I did not know existed. Though a NAP 500 may be the best amp Naim's ever made, you'd be a fool not to have these racks set up first, based on what they did for an entry-level separates system.

I assume with your job you are familair with the sound of a CDS2/52/500. What you are implying above is that a CD5/112/150 on a FRAIM is better (musical nuance and detail) than a CDS2/52/500 on the best rack you've previously heard.

Then you go on to say in a later post:

quote:
Sorry, I was half-trying to be comic

Maybe its a sense of humour failure on my part but your original post looked like an honest claim to me. What if Sproggle hadn't tempted this afterthought out of you ? Dangerous stuff.

Allan

Posted on: 05 May 2001 by Sproggle

quote:
Sorry, I was half-trying to be comic--of course the stand works perfectly fine--if it didn't, you'd think I'd have no response, right...?

What did I do to prompt this? confused

quote:
Maybe its a sense of humour failure on my part but your original post looked like an honest claim to me.

Same here... confused

--Jeremy

Posted on: 05 May 2001 by David Dever

quote:
What you are implying above is that a CD5/112/150 on a FRAIM is better (musical nuance and detail) than a CDS2/52/500 on the best rack you've previously heard.

It's an intersection of all the previous positive stand experiences rolled into one.

Not only will your existing equipment sound great on these supports, but you'll hear the difference in performance as you move along the upgrade path.

Therefore, it might make sense to get these early on, say, when you first go to separates, rather than waiting--I must say that the little Series 5 system was quite convincing as it was...

(As a point of reference, a three-tier / four-shelf Fraim costs about the same over here as a CD5--but less than Series 5 separates.)

Dave Dever, NANA

[This message was edited by David Dever, NANA on SATURDAY 05 May 2001 at 17:10.]

Posted on: 06 May 2001 by Alex S.

May I repeat Steve's earlier question. . .

"The LP12 seems to work with Mana better than any other wall shelf/stand. Has anyone used it on the Fraim"?