Hi End for Metallica?

It is a point, isn't it?

I reckon Naim is best on Jazz and the natural recordings, generally made of clasical instruments. It can demolish some pop in my experience!

But then it is horses for courses. If someone wants to replay Metalica on Naim, then that seems fair enough to me. In fact a friend produced exactly Metalica for me on a sort of IPod thingy and we plugged it into my set via a beautiful Chord cable I had made years ago with a mini-jack to DIN arrangement on it, and hey, it was rather bloody marvelous. Two jaws dropped in this room, and possibly next door as well, as it isn't half cut at a higher level than your avarage classical recording!

[Smiley]. Fredrik

There are many things that astound me with other peoples' musical taste (for the life of me I can't understand anyone liking Celine Dion - sorry Celine Dion fans - but they do). And I dare say others would consider my taste in music to be just as barmy, and probably more so.

Enjoy whatever bangs your eardrum!
James

It's not a question of what one enjoys. It's about building a system appropriate for the type of music one enjoys. Yes, a good system should reproduce all types of music equally well, I know.

However, I just can't understand how metal fans buy relatively low-powered amps and speakers with 6" bass drivers and are then complaining about the fact that the kick drum doesn't knock the dishes off the shelves.

BTW, I can't stand Celine or any of those other "hog-callers". They all come from the Ethel Merman school of screaming. Why do they have to yell all the time?

Shirley Bassey seems to yell as well! Fredrik

Thinking abou the time when my set found itself replaying some rather weighty sounds - that Metalica day - what I found startling was that it did make a hell of a big, and bass weighty sonority, but rather clear. If that is not enough for people, what on earth is? I am not sure I want to know really. The power end of things is a 200 driving SBLs! So not mega-watts or huge drivers by any means...

ATB from Fredrik

Half Man, Half Biscuit sounds fantastic on a Naim system - it brings out the best in the musical performance and puts the singing to the fore. Hence you can pick out Nigel Blackwell's extraordinary lyrics. I'm not sure Naim designers play much HMHB when conducting listening tests, but I know Anna Tooth once posted asking for some HMHB recommendations (hope you liked TOBW, Anna).

I guess the way to choose hifi is listen to your favourite music and see if it brings out the best in it.

I don't listen at loud volumes to HMHB or any other music.

I don't think I know anything by Metallica - are they like Motley Crue, of whom Nigel B wrote

help me Mrs Medlicott
I don't know what to do
I've only got three bullets
and there's four of Motley Crew

For me the hifi has got to be able to let me enjoy Shirley Collins as much as HMHB as much as Syd Barrett as much as Martha & the Muffins as much as Leoš Janáček, Gustav Mahler and others.

BTW, I still think Leoš Janáček was the first prog-rocker - just listen to Sinfonietta.

I think classification in music is a strange concept - it seems we lump everything that pre-dates a certain time together as classical and everything from about 1950 onwards as pop. However, it just doesn't work for me. There is an awful lot of pop music I detest and much I like. There is very little classical music that I detest, probably because only the good stuff survives (Britten's folk song arrangements being the only classical work I would describe as truly vile and something I simply can bear to listen to - he massacres some great music - some of his other work is fine BTW).

So I want to listen to it all and enjoy it - that's why I have settled on a Naim system.

Rotf

I expected Metallica to be really heavy, but it was not, or not what I was played, and there were some rather sensitive words too.

I am going to investigate this further actually, which may amaze all of you who think I only like the classics!

I dislike more classical music than rock or pop, because I know it better, and I don't think it is possible to definately have an antipathy, until you are well aquainted with the object, person, or art-work! For example I can think of only one or two pop artists I would rank alongside Wagner on "avoid like the plague" list! I have to admit that one of them is Eminem!

But Metallica sounds promissing to me!!!

ATB from Fredrik

PS: I don't like antipathy. It wears me out, and there is so only so much energy in a lifetime! My policy is avoidance.

I think you are in very risky territory putting one mans preference down in place of your own.

I for instance do not particularly like classical, gowd only knows I tried but I just can't be dealing with it.

For me naim is great for heavy music and for electronica.

So as usual your hifi is god for what you enjoy.

I do not like Mettalica BTW, more for the fact they are muppets and are trying to stop any of their music being available on the web. Get with the times boys!

quote:

I'm not here to dictate what someone should listen to, but I really cannot understand why people here spend a fortune on a Naim system to listen to metal, reggae, punk...

Well, I gues there are some people who listen to both metal, reggae and punk + jazz, classical, world music and folk. I must say that if you go for Cerwin Vega, classical music just don't sound enjoyable. I must admit that I didn't 100% fall for classical music before I heard it played on good equipment. It's not so easy to find a brand that manages to play both classical and punk, but to me Naim is the best in this regard so far. The typical hi-fi equipment with big soundstage tend to screw up the timing that's important for punk, reggae++. All type of music sound enjoyable on my equipment; except for maybe some lo-fi garage rock. I don't think many people have room in their apartment for one set-up for rock music and one for classical, jazz and so on ? I guess there has to be some compromise.

Maybe, some people just have wider tastes in music than you have?

I can understand the point of buying better music if you have a good system.Why have a expensive system if the records are bad?Even a Marantz or Philips is better for crap records!

Funny thing is that a general perception of a Naim kit is that they do the best with rock/pop.

I dunno what to say to those ppl! ( obviously, they haven't had an intimate dealing with a Naim kit )

Interesting topic Charyo.
This has been the biggest question amongst our house guests and my SO.

'why do you spend so much money on the shit you listen to? '

In spite the misconception, better dynamics and timing accuracy would benefit ALL kind of music.

The reason I prefer one kit from another are not usually about transparency and air. (if I did I would be bored to death, even on a *respectable* music )

I really enjoy Metallica on my Naim set. The energy that bangs into the room playing this music loud (no neighbours) is so cool. And of course every now and then Rammstein marches trough the room as well. Naim is perfect in transporting the amounts of energy this type of music makes.

I understand the sentiment, but Metallica is a bad example as their music is well played, well constructed, and not mindless headbanging as some would imagine them to be.
Fredrik - I would love to put together a compilation of Eminem tracks to change your mind. Just half a dozen tracks. Would you give it half an hour of your time to be amazed, and probably moved?

Apropos the topic of this thread, I do recall making a similar point in Hi-Fi Corner a few weeks ago but nobody noticed..

However, I do like Metallica, and it sounds great on my system, but I have to admit to sharing Fred's scepticism about Eminem!

Had a blast on Saturday evening - strangely I chose Metallica to turn the system up to.

Why not hi-end for Metallica and the like - they play real instruments which have complex signatures. I like the way I can hear the stick hit the drum skin and the way each beat decays back into the mix (and still hear guitars and vox humana, too). It's not absolutely necessary to have hi-end gear to 'get the point' of music like this but such equipment enhances listening pleasure so why not?

Years ago during my uni years someone asked me why I had such a good hi-fi 'just' for Iron Maiden. I replied that all they heard me use it for was Iron Maiden (everything else was played more quietly so they didn't notice). I gave them a proper dem of Iron Maiden and they came out saying that they 'never knew how well they could play, or how good the recordings were'.

A result, I feel...

Cheers!

Rich.

quote:

Originally posted by JonR:
have to admit to sharing Fred's scepticism about Eminem!

I'll have to prove you wrong too then

Go on then, Rasher, I'm game

quote:

Originally posted by Chayro:
I'm not here to dictate what someone should listen to, but I really cannot understand why people here spend a fortune on a Naim system to listen to metal, reggae, punk...

Invariably, you see a later post about not being able to reproduce Metallica or reggae bass at ear-splitting levels with their Nait 5i and Epos 12s or whatever.

Reggae sounds superb on a Naim system. The bass is given a perfect and precise weight. It's not overwhelming but it isn't supposed to be in reaggae. It's prominent and important and rhythmic, all qualities that are conveyed ny Naim equipment.
The whole point of listening to a system is that it should make the most of what it's given - no matter how poor the original recording. Naim does that.

I would say that naim kit (and epos speakers) are the perfect combination for the music being used as an example here for most domestic settings.
The naim virtues of PRaT are ideal for these styles of music. Epos speakers too offer excellent PRaT. OK they won't do monster bass but how many UK livingrooms can handle huge speakers?

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
I would love to put together a compilation of Eminem tracks. Just half a dozen tracks. Would you give it half an hour of your time to be amazed, and probably moved?

Now that is your challenge, as I, for one, can't imagine that I would ever like Eminem. Though I know very little by him to be honest.

I have found out the name of the Metallica number I so enjoyed:

Nothing else really matters.

In fact it sparked my Thread in the Music Room, 'Music that can reduce you to tears.@ I enjoyed that Thread, but it kind of dead off, sadly. Tomorrow I shall be in HMV to get a copy. This forum is good for me.

However I doubt if I shall be buying anything from the Eminem section!

Its all good fun isn't it? Well bloddy house hunting is not I can tell you! [Frustrated Grimace Type Smiley].

Fredrik

Fredrik,

I have a natural aversion to any chamber music. ( harpscichord, particularly )

However, I am willing to give it a try.

Any good recommendation?

Dear Kuma,

Harpsichord music but played on the piano. ['Yes I am a Hypocrite,' type Smiley]!

Bach's First Partita played by Dinu Lipati. This is a piece of music that is both beautiful, easy grasped without struggle, and so charming you might be left wondering why on earth some people regard Bach as a bit stern and forbidding on times!

It has never been out of the EMI catalogue since it was recorded in 1950. The recording is technically excellent mono. The piano playing is actually a gift from the gods!

One to set you off, dear Kuma! One of the truly best! From Fred!

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
I have found out the name of the Metallica number I so enjoyed:

Nothing else really matters.

"Nothing Else Matters", Fred

And yes, it is a very good track!

quote:

but I really cannot understand why people here spend a fortune on a Naim system to listen to metal, reggae, punk...

simple - you need to acquaint yourself with some metal, reggae, punk....

The magic of a Naim system is the way it brings alive all forms of music, opens with window and facilitates musical exploration.

Your post seems to suggest that 'metal, reggae, punk...' don't need the finess and timing that Naim playback brings - ISTM you're writing off these styles as you don't understand them - or at least are conveniently ignoring the complex time signatures, swing, feel, groove, power etc prevalent in all of these genres.

As for "why can't I play at ear-splitting levels" - these punters expect something for nothing. All systems are a compromise - at a given pricepoint (eg entry level) you get the finesse and musicality, you lose (thankfully) the nightclub PA effect. it's all simple stuff. stump up a bit more wedge, and you get more. This argument is not isolated to a Naim system - it applies to all kit - "why can't I knock down my neigbour's walls with my £300 richer-sounds assembly of what hifi supertest winners'?

Get thee down to your local record store and branch out a little. if you need guidance on where to start in other genres, try exploring the music room, or browse www.allmusic.com

cheers