NaimUniti music streaming issues...

quote:

Originally posted by arasekhi:
Hi All,

I'm hoping that to get help on how to fix the issues that I'm running into streaming music to the NaimUniti. There is really one BIG problem, and one BIG missing feature....

I'll start with the BIG missing feature (which btw may be the root cause of the BIG problem?)...I can't natively play Apple Lossless music files on the NaimUniti. To me, this is a huge missing gap in the product specially since many of its competitors already support this format (e.g. Sonos). Because of this shortcoming, I've been forced to access the music stored on our Buffalo NAS drive indirectly through a UPnP server called EyeConnect running on a Mac OS X machine accessing the music on the NAS drive through iTunes. The reason I'm doing all this is because EyeConnect does on-the-fly conversion of Apple Lossless to Wav when streaming to the NaimUniti.

Now on to the BIG problem...when i try to stream music to the NaimUniti, i see three UPnP servers on the NaimUniti display: A Sonos system that we have in the kitchen, a Buffalo NAS drive where I store all our music (accessed by iTunes and by the Sonos), and an EyeConnect UPnP server that is running on our Mac OS X machine. I usually try to select EyeConnect to play my music on the NaimUniti, but more than 90% of the time, I get "Input Initializing..," on the NaimUnit display and after about 30 seconds I am back to the list of UPnP servers. Sometimes, the display gets as far as the song list and I get "Input Initializing..." and the same 30-second wait and return to the UPnP servers after trying to play a song. At this point, re-selecting any of the UPnP servers (e.g. Buffalo NAS Drive) would also result in "Input Initializing.." message, the wait and the vicious cycle back to the list of UPnP servers. Powering off and on the NaimUniti alone does not help. However, I've noticed that if I restart the Mac OS X machine (and therefore EyeConnect) and power off/on the NaimUniti, I get the EyeConnect UPnP server to work for a while, but if I don't use the NaimUniti for an hour or two, I am back at the problem described above.

Here is my set-up and some background information:
- The NaimUniti is connected to the network via an Ethernet cable, so it's not a wireless connection.
- I'm using the Buffalo NAS drive to store all of the iTunes music. It's getting used by the Sonos system, and the Mac OS X machine to play music. It can also be seen by the NaimUniti, but I run into the issue described shortly after trying to access it.

I would really appreciate any suggestions on how I can successfully stream my Apple Lossless music to the NaimUniti from our Buffalo NAS drive. I really appreciate NaimUniti's sound quality and ease of use when playing CDs/TV/DVDs/Blueray/Vudu and even iradio, but the UPnP/streaming support on the NaimUniti, which is one of the main attractions of this product, has got to be one of the worst product features I've ever seen (and based on similar posting on this forum, I can see that I'm not the only one with this issue). I've been using our Sonos which basically does the same thing for streaming music for two years without a single issue, but unfortunately, it's no match for the NaimUniti in terms of sound quality.

Please help!

Thanks in advance,
A. Rasekhi

My advice would be to batch-convert the files to a format that the NAS can stream directly to the Unity. Step away from the Apple "system" and the work-arounds.

(Disclaimer: I am fully Apple-ised, so I don't need my Appley stuff to interact with anything else.)

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
My advice would be to batch-convert the files to a format...

But why should he Winky ? Seriously. So he has to either give up on the format he has chosen or alternatively have a duplicate set of files...Just to accommodate the Uniti ? Isn't that a bit upside down ?

This is yet another post here, from a new member (and I'm guessing new convert to Naim ?) highlighting yet again the same issue.....We're hardly talking an obscure format here and a visit to any mainstream audio magazine or forum shows that ALAC is a very popular choice for people ripping their music...This isn't going to change !

Uniti by name only it seems...

Of course it's Naim's business if they want to licence from Apple or not*, but surely they can include a guaranteed UPnP software solution (whether it be their own or 3rd party) in the box with the Uniti - it is after all a 'one box solution'.....? Making a lot of this stuff painless has got to be key here IMHO, otherwise folk in this target market are just going to stick with their Sonos et al....

* Strangely, the Uniti will support ALAC via connected iPod.(though I'm still not clear whether that's via the Uniti DAC or the iPods ?)

Steve.

You need to use the n-link cable to play ALAC in a uniti..

It's abit of a pain in the arse as you can stream MPEG-4 etc. it might have something to do with the file size? not sure..

I use USB for FLAC and N-link for ALAC on mine

As Winky says - it is easy to batch convert from Alac to Flac or Wav - the UNITI works superbly as a UPNP streamer with those freely available non proprietary open formats. It's Apple who have chosen to go their own way for their own commercial reasons. If you buy Apple kit that goes with the territory - I don't think it is justified to expect Naim or the rest of the world to play their game. That's one of the reasons I switched from Mac to PC - though I do have an Ipod touch and use Itunes so I'm not "anti Apple" as a point of ideology. It's notable what a high proportion of problems on this forum relate to Apple kit - I found that as soon as I wanted to do something with a MAC that wasn't part of their built in facilities I tended to run into a brick wall. Nothing much seems to have changed there...

A few ideas:

1. Wait for ALAC support in the Uniti (probably a long wait)
2. Disable the other UPNP servers on your network or isolate EyeConnect to a separate wired or wireless network - should fix the initialising problem.
3. Batch convert your ALACs to FLACs, maintaining your file size, lossless quality and tagging and then the Uniti will play these fine from the NAS. To then play them in iTunes, download and install Fluke and use it to "FLAC enable" the files so that iTunes is happy to play them.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Pev:
As Winky says - it is easy to batch convert from Alac to Flac or Wav - the UNITI works superbly as a UPNP streamer with those freely available non proprietary open formats. It's Apple who have chosen to go their own way for their own commercial reasons. If you buy Apple kit that goes with the territory - I don't think it is justified to expect Naim or the rest of the world to play their game. That's one of the reasons I switched from Mac to PC - though I do have an Ipod touch and use Itunes so I'm not "anti Apple" as a point of ideology. It's notable what a high proportion of problems on this forum relate to Apple kit - I found that as soon as I wanted to do something with a MAC that wasn't part of their built in facilities I tended to run into a brick wall. Nothing much seems to have changed there...

I based my advice on two observations.

1) Apple's proprietary way of doing things is very good unless you want to communicate with other standards/systems.

2) So-called UPnP is far from it: It's definitely not "Universal" and is rarely "Plug'n'Play". It seems very finicky in a lot of cases.

Put these two factors together, and you have a potentially difficult set-up.

Batch conversion is very easy. Not really a strategic shift in approach.

Rule #1 - avoid any media archiving file format for which support is either spotty or unavailable (no official licensing exists for Apple Lossless decoding). Cross-convert to FLAC and call it a day.

Rule #2 - keep it simple. If you store the music as FLAC on the NAS, and use the NAS' built-in UPnP AV/DLNA server, then you minimize the possibilities for error (i.e., no computers required).

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
Rule #1 - avoid any media archiving file format for which support is either spotty or unavailable (no official licensing exists for Apple Lossless decoding). Cross-convert to FLAC and call it a day.

Rule #2 - keep it simple. If you store the music as FLAC on the NAS, and use the NAS' built-in UPnP AV/DLNA server, then you minimize the possibilities for error (i.e., no computers required).

We're mostly saying the same thing.

After several months during which I used only CD and DVD with the NaimUniti, I finally decided to try the streaming features.

Here are a few observations and opinions following this experimentation.

Let me start with the hardware and software I used.

Hardware:
- NaimUniti, Version 1.5.02 and Boot version 1.1.00 (not the latest upgrade, I believe)
- Router: Netgear WGR614v3, with firmware from November 2003(!)
- Laptop IBM T60P running Windows XP SP3
- Samsung Moment smartphone running Android

Software used:
- Windows Media Player v11
- Foobar2000 and UPNP component (05/22/2010)
- Andromote (Upnp application for Android)

IMPORTANT: I tested the NaimUniti in wireless mode only.

My first conclusion:

1) The wireless connection feature of the Uniti works well.

I set up the wireless connection in the following way:
- Region United States
- Mode g and b
- Security WEP, automatic authentication
- encryption strength 64 bits
- Key1
- Enable SSID broadcast On
- Wireless Card Access List (restricting access based on Mac Adress)
- Use router as DHCP Server
- Reserved IP address for each device

I input the correct WEP encryption in the Network settings of the Uniti and had no connection issues to the router.

During all my testing I was connected to the router from the laptop and could see the NaimUniti attached to the router.

Second observation:

2) The wireless streaming works well...EXCEPT WHEN THE MICROWAVE OVEN IS IN USE!

The microwave oven was located about 5 meters away from the Uniti, seemingly outside of the the direct path to the router. Nevertheless, any time the microwave was started, streaming stopped. It would resume without any problem after the microwave would stop.

Morality: if you want to listen to Internet radio while the family is busy preparing breakfast or diner, then you should probably think about wired connection.

3) Following the good wireless connection to the router (when the microwave was off), I also found the Internet radio to work quite well.

I was able to browse radios and listen to them without experiencing issues. And I was pleasantly surprised by the sound quality.

After aknowledging the good points, it is time to evoke what did not work so well.

4) Based on my observations, the UPnP features of the NaimUniti seem to have some issues.

a) Delayed detection
The first problem - which is not necessarily due to the NaimUniti, but could be also coming from UPnP configuration settings in the router or in Windows - was some sort of delay or latency in the overall detection of the various UPnP components.

Foobar2000 was the fastest component, first able to detect Windows Media Server as a "UPnP browser" in a few seconds (easy: both were installed on the same machine). It would then find the NaimUniti as "UPnP Controller", and this would take maybe one minute.

Then the Andromote application (Android phone) would detect Foobar2000 after several minutes, then Windows Media Player. Then much later he would finally detect the NaimUniti. I did not measure exactly the time it took because it was too long. I would put the phone away, and take it back later. At some point I would find that the system had finally established connection.

Finally the NaimUniti would be the last one to find the other components.

While the other components would show the NaimUniti, the Uniti would still not find any UPnP servers when selecting UPnP input using the remote.

So I would take control of the Uniti using Foobar2000 or the phone, and then stream music from one of those two controllers. At some point, much later, I would check on the NaimUniti and finally I would see on the screen of the NaimUniti the list of UPnP servers.

Conclusion: UPnP works, but it takes a long time for the system to establish all the UPnP connections between all the elements.

This constitutes an issue for a casual user who expects to power up the system and stream music after a few seconds.

Maybe the workraround is to keep the whole system up and running all the time (power bill anyone?), but unfortunately this solution does not seem practical because I also notice another problem.

b) Fragile UPnP connections.
After seeing UPnP connections established, I did some switching back and forth between CD playing and UPnP streaming, controlling the NaimUniti from Foobar or from the phone.

After about 10 changes, the NaimUniti would not accept anymore the UPnP streaming. The message "Please Wait, buffering input" would show up. The same message would also appear when trying to connect to the Internet Radio. No more streaming.

The only way I found to solve the situation was to use Tools, Network Settings on the NaimUniti and force it to disconnect/reconnect from the network.
I would also refresh the router by switching on/off the UPnP settings on the router, disconnecting all the other UPnP elements as well.
But then, it would bring the system back into the initial situation where all the connections would have to be painfully re-established.

So in conclusion of this experience, the combination of lengthy UPnp connections and the "switching" issues create a difficult user experience.

I do not blame the NaimUniti itself, because maybe I have not set up correctly the UPnp parameters in the router or in Windows. Maybe Foobar2000 and Windows Media Player should not be on the same machine.

Anyway, so far UPnP is a mixed experience.

My hope is that I am encountering some temporary glitches that can be resolved soon.

If you have different experiences or solutions, please feel free to share...

Thanks.

The way I do it is:
- Use SONOS to stream Apple lossless (ALAC/ALC).
SONOS ZonePlayer is connected via digital coax
to the uniti and sound is OK

- If it has to sound really well, I have a FLAC
version of my tunes stored on an external USB
drive. The USB drive is attached directly to
Unit. Since, for sake of
avoiding data loss due to failed disk, you
need anyway a second copy of your tunes, why
not have this second copy in FLAC format

- You can do easy batch conversion on MAC
using MAX. Great tool, and free of charge.

I use Asset UPnP on my Windows XP laptop with success. Implementation is easy and straight forward. I opt for transcoding for all my ALAC files into WAV files, and stream it to the NaimUniti wirelessly. I don't face any network latency problem.

quote:

Originally posted by vlada:
- If it has to sound really well, I have a FLAC
version of my tunes stored on an external USB
drive. The USB drive is attached directly to
Unit.

Interesting: do you navigate through the files of the USB using the remote control of the Uniti?

In summary, if I understand correctly, your approach consists in avoiding the Wireless and UPnP features of the NaimUniti altogether

Sonos was initially a solution I was also considering but since there is already DAC, ethernet, wireless and UPnP features in the NaimUniti, I feel it would create a duplication.
Also I tried their remote touch controller, and I was not completely convinced.

quote:

Originally posted by p3esr:
I use Asset UPnP on my Windows XP laptop with success. Implementation is easy and straight forward. I opt for transcoding for all my ALAC files into WAV files, and stream it to the NaimUniti wirelessly. I don't face any network latency problem.

I changed the wireless settings on the Uniti: turning off the DHCP and assigned a static IP address inside the Uniti to eliminate any possible issues on that side. It works very well, and this allows easy connection to the Internet Radio.

What is still imperfect is the initial UPnP communication.

This morning, I turned on the machine, the IRadio would work immediately, but not the UPnP.

The UPnP servers were up and running, but the communication would not establish. The various servers loacated on two different laptops would talk to each other, but the Uniti was not part of the conversation.
Finally after reinitializing the router and reinitializing the NaimUniti (through Tools, Network Settings), the Uniti joined the party.
Then things went Ok for the rest of the day.

So my question to you is the following: do you leave the NaimUniti and your network up and running 24/7?

Thanks

No, my dealer doesn't turn it on all the time. If you have assigned a static IP address to your Uniti, try to use a web browser and type the Uniti's IP address at the URL box. You should be able to check the wireless signal strength. Also, try to perform ping from your UPnP server to your Uniti and check for latency. If you get below 10ms, you should be fine. Make sure there's no DECT phone nor microwave oven nearby your Uniti. If required, you might need to manually set your wireless AP channel. Try to play around so that you get the optimized signal strength.

Yesterday, I tested the system using Wired connections instead of wireless:

-> Uniti connected with wire to the router
-> Router connected with wire to laptop running foobar.

Note: router was not connected to internet, it was just a test where I brought the router close to the NaimUniti.

After setting up the system and use it for a few hours I turned everything off.

This morning I switched on the router, the laptop and the Uniti: the UPnp connections were in place almost immediately.

Temporary results:
- Wireless feature of the Uniti works fine
- UPnP works fine
- UPnP + wireless sometimes takes time to switch into place.
- UPnP + wired connections seems to establish faster

To be verified...

Great to hear that. Try positioning your wireless AP in different position, it's not surprising to see significant gain in the wireless radio strength. With your laptop, can you detect other SSID around your area?