Authorised Naim Mod?

P--

Dave Dever mentioned that they could probably be repaired--for a price !(Of course, by the time you "win" the auction and they pay to repair them you might as well have bought new ones !)

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !ø

Bob,
Why would you need to repair these, it says right
in the ad:

quote:

---

The Naims(135s) function flawlessly and are in excellent condition with no scratches, dents or nicks.

---

???

Ron The Mon

Bob

There's no way I'm advocating buying these abominable monstrosities.

Reason I highlighted them was because I thought there might be some unsuspecting types out there who might be tempted.

I'm also astonished that Naim allow this sort of thing to pass. If I owned Naim, I'd be more than a little bit pissed off that somebody could butcher my stuff and then have the cheek to advertise them for sale as a Naim product.

Outrageous.

P.

David - .

To me they are an abomination.

However, if you fancy the idea don't let my opinion stop you. Go right on ahead and buy them and please report back when you get them set up in your system.

Happy bidding

P.

Sorry Arthur

I never realised you had already posted on this topic.

Best

P.

David old chap

Just where or when did I ever suggest what they might SOUND like?

I was actually referring to the aesthetics and the fact that they couldn't be used in a Naim system with a Naim Pre amp and the fact that somebody who might not know otherwise could be fooled into thinking that they could.

As Dave Dever said in Arthurs thread - Buyer Beware!

P.

David--

I'll steal P's line about missing where I said anything about what they sounded like--I have, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, no idea what they sound like.

My point is that if someone buys them thinking they are real 135s they will be gravely mistaken and (presumably) out a significant amount of money to convert them back to 135s. Also, if they really are 135s then why do they have "Daniels Audio" emblazoned on them ? Clearly they are no longer "real" 135s and they should not be sold as such--this smacks of dishonesty. Finally, I would be willing to bet they do NOT sound nearly as good as stock 135s. The next time someone modifies Naim gear to make it sound better, measure as well and perform as safely and reliably as the stock gear does will be a first.

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !

If I were Naim , I'd leave a message with my lawyers.

dave

Bob you said

quote:

---

Also, if they really are 135s then why do they have "Daniels Audio" emblazoned on them ? Clearly they are no longer "real" 135s and they should not be sold as such

---

Would anyone who read the blurb and saw the Daniels Audio emblazoning not realise that they had been heavily modified?

The sales pitch is that the are better than real 135s........perhaps a prototype 500 in v old cases!!

A claim to better sound for a mod could be a fanciful misrepresentation to palm off a bad product, but it could also be a genuinely held opinion.

Clearly if you can't listen before you buy any bidder would be taking a flier, and my guess on sond quality is the same as yours, but we could be wrong.

I don't know what a fair s/h price for real 135s would be, but there do not seem to have been many bids and the reserve has not been reached yet - market forces at work for modified products?

Chris

Gentlemen--

I have no beef with anyone who wants to modify equipment they have purchased. There are many worthwhile companies in the audio world (and others) who started out this way. My quibble is with someone trading on the name Naim to sell something when they are, clearly, NOT Naim. The fact that they started life as Naim 135s is immaterial TO ME. IMO they should not be advertised as Naim 135s but rather as Daniels Audio whatevers.

I agree with Dave when he says if he were Naim he would be calling his lawyer.

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !¿

Cheers Bob...well said, It is not a Naim and should not be advertsied as such.

Chris.

Yep... I think the line was crossed when representation as a 135 was used and most importantly , re-badging a made-for-naim-only-case. It could be argued Naim's case work is a "hallmark" exclusive to their company.

just my opinion ,

dave

I think the point most of you are missing is that
there is much deception in the ad; what was said
and what was not .
First of all, these "chrome bumper" amps were
probably purchased circa 1987 (no serial numbers included) yet the ad's only date leads you to believe 1997 !! The amps were also probably purchased new for about $3000. or less than half the price brand new of what the amps are worth today. The owner touts the fact of "OFC" inputs but fails to let you know that Naim interconnects were included new but does not discount the price(or selling features) for failing to offer them with the amps(or any interconnects for that matter). Are the amps offered with the original power cables? Then again, the amps would actually be less than $7500. new without power cables or interconnects!! How about the original boxes and packaging? It will cost additional from Naim to get proper safe shipping when restoring. And lastly, if these amps were to be completely recapped and restored to current spec they still wouldn't sound as good as a 2001 amp because of the newer output devices, circuit board layout, etc.
And for those of you who can't read between the lines: nowhere in the ad does it say that this amp was compared side-by-side to true 135s and preferred. It doesn't say what pre-amp was or is used. Going for tube gear? Without even directly comparing it? Saying with a straight face that simply changing wire and caps "widen" the bandwith(without changing component values?)? In other words, these modified amps must sound like crap!! (As well as realistically being worth about $300.)

Ron The Mon

You just said what I was thinkin' all along.

Couldn't have put it better.

Smack on

P.

Problem solved.

Joe

Man, you do it every time

Thanks for being around and making us laugh about this madness.

You a funny guy

It's appreciated

P.

I've decided not to cut the cable tie on my 82 as I could not cope with the disapprobation.

In order to reach a decision on sound quality on these things why doesn't the forum as a group buy the amps and get them to the forum barbie and all those attending can give their opinion.

The practicality and logistics of this suggestion would need to be thought through, but it could be fun.

Chris

quote:

---

why doesn't the forum as a group buy the amps and get them to the forum barbie and all those attending can give their opinion

---

I'll give you two good reasons:

1) they don't burn too well.
2) burning caps etc probably not too good for the atmosphere.
3) Steak a-la crap135's wouldn't have many takers, esp if there were 'Steak a-la Faber' on the menu.

P mentioned Madness above - I think he has a point. Seems to me there's not much to discuss on the forum at the mo when you'll all argue so vociferously about these boxes.

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

I think you people are crazy.

First, surely you are all not serious when you suggest that these amps should not have been advertised as Naim products. Daniel Audio, in fact. Come on now, the alternative is far more egregious. Surely Naim would less prefer that its products are bought new, modified (to whatever degree) and then passed off as somebody else’s goods. The fact is, these are modified Naim Nap 135’s, and they are advertised as such.

Second, to suggest that the advert is rife with deception is disingenuous at best. It is rare that I see a Naim item listed on ebay which refers to its new price when it was new rather than its current new price. When was the last time you saw an 8 year old hicap listed as “1150.00 when new?” You haven’t. Good god, how many of YOU have listed used Naim gear on Ebay and suggested the new price is the CURRENT new price.

Nor do I believe for a second that nobody on this board is capable of distinguishing “puffing” from deception. Are not all hi-end audio claims puffing. Surely the Nac 52 pre-amp is not “objectively” the finest pre-amp in the world—though I suppose I may have walked into that one there--surely some of you will claim that it is.

Finally (and I hate to dredge up arguments already made), but not a single one of you have heard these things. You don’t have the slightest idea what they sound like. Nor do I believe that any of you genuinely think that Naim gear cannot be improved. If the nac 32.5 could not have been improved, there would have been no nac 72. The 52 PS would not have been replaced by the supercap. There would be no CDSII.

I like Naim gear. It’s pretty much all I have (and have had for the past 10 years), but I don’t believe that it cannot be bettered—though I haven’t found anything yet. What I see here, however, is a kind of blind devotion to an arbitrary benchmark—a blind devotion that if Naim itself shared, we’d all still be listening to nac12’s.

Judd

I've been the the guy's website. He appears to do CD players, pre-amps and speakers. Only the speakers seem to be built from the ground up, while the other stuff is built on another manufacturer's platform. FWIW, the speakers are single driver affairs which claim only to go 45 to 8000 hrtz. No tweeters in sight.

I must say, though, if, albiet implausably, you agreed that these sounded better than Nap 135's, I am at a loss as to why you would not bid even 1 dollar--as you say. I don't understand this comment. Surely they are worthwhile if they do indeed sound better than 135's, no?

As to why he does not make his own gear, I suppose there are a number of reasons, foremost of which is probably that he cannot gather the capital it takes to get it going. Or maybe he knows nothing of manufacturering. Your guess is as good as mine.

Judd

Justin(Judd),
I realized I left out an important part of my
above post. The person selling these Naim amps(and I use the term loosely) is a professional EBAYer.
He sells an item for auction every other day or so on EBAY as well as (from my quick search of
similar items) on two other internet auction
sites. He has been accused of selling forgeries
and intentionally lying about equipment condition.
Did you notice or fail to notice that the photo of the amps are picture perfect? What is he trying to hide by not showing any background? If you notice
the photos of most hi-fi sold by "real people"
online, there is carpet, sofas, tables, etc. In
many instances, the items for sale are pictured
in or near hi-fi racks; you see that the person is really an "audiophile". This guy is a fraud, or
else with the high quality photos taken, he would
have opened the amps(or at least one) and given an inside peek. The reason he didn't is that the amps are butchered inside and sound like shit!! He
probably bought these amps last week for a few
hundred dollars and figured he could off them for
a few thousand to some poor sap. Oh, you don't
believe me? E-mail the guy and see if he'll send
you photos. I once bought an amplifier(not Naim)
on-line and was ripped-off by a pro EBAYer from an ad in the same fashion as this. I even talked
to the guy on the phone and he was super nice
until I got the amp, then he never responded to
another call or e-mail again

Ron The Mon

The ad seems to make it clear that the amps were previously NAP135s but now heavily modified. Of course I wouldn't go within a mile of them myself, but maybe someone will be taken in.

Whoever did the job, if they left the XLR sockets in circuit then anyone using them with a Naim pre-amp will get right-channel reproduced from both amps. Stupid or what?

Martin

One Thousand Nine Hundred and Seventy Seven Dollars!!!!!??????? is what they went for.

.....and thats not far short of what I paid for my 2 year old pair of genwhines!

I'm shocked (and I have just blobbed yet another bead of rolling perspiration from my forehead onto my keyboard - it's a bit hot aint it?)

P.