Will the 135's do the trick?

what difference can I expect from the sound? Will I have to modify the 32-5?

You won't have to modify the 32.5. When the 135s first came out, I think that Naim's top pre-amp was the 32.5. The 32.5 and the 135s were made for each other, so to speak!! The 32.5 can be (could be) modified with new boards to provide some of the changes brought about by the 72 pre-amp. These are purely optional, but in my opinion, were worthwhile.

You should get a sweeter treble and a deeper bass that is also better timed and tighter. You should get more detail accross the entire audio spectrum. The sound will be more relaxed; less strained on crescendos; better pace, rhythm and timing. I imagine this is because the 135s have more power and are able to better control your loudspeakers.

If you are buying privately, at a reasonable price, and you find you don't like the sound difference (unlikely), it should be easy to sell the 135s on without a financial loss.

If the 135s are (say) 8 years or older, budget for an overhaul at Naim, unless this has already been done.

Cheers

Don

PS. I have just re-read your posting, and realised you are buying via your dealer. Clearly, the chances of you selling them on without loss is unlikely. OTOH, your dealer should be prepared to fully demonstrate the 135s against your 140 so that you can sample the difference before you commit to buy. You should still budget for the overhaul if appropriate, but again, your dealer should advise.

Thanks for your reply Don.
A sweeter treble and deeper bass is precisely what I'm looking for.
I bought the 32-5 & 140 and also my CD3 from the same dealer so I'm hoping they'll let me have a home demo.I'll be ringing them tomorrow so we'll see.
By the way, what is a reasonable price for these amps?

what is a reasonable price for these amps?

I really don't know.

Try searching in Loot, or have a look in the classified ads in one of the hifi mags, or try the web-sites of Naim dealers (there is a link to some of these elsewhere on this web-site), or try Tom-Tom hifi. This should give you some idea of prices.

Cheers

Don

Hi Faz

Good advice from Don.

I would emphasise his point about servicing. You or your dealer can find out when the amps were last serviced by quoting the serial numbers to Naim's service department.

I had an eight year old pair of 135's serviced by Naim, and the sound they produced was improved dramatically.

And don't think his is just 're-capping' - renewing sockets and minor components can make a real difference.

If they haven't had a proper service in the last five years; use it as a bargaining tool.

Good luck.

I've had the 135's on loan for a few days and although I could hear the difference I'm not convinced they are worth the £1800.00 asking price.So back to the dealer they've gone.
However a strange thing has happened. Since plugging back in the 140 the sound has improved. The harshness has diminished and the bass is now more forward.Is it possible that I've somehow not had the thing plugged in properly in the past? The point is that I'm now thinking of sticking with what I've got but looking at changing the sources. My theory is that a warmer sounding turntable (say an LP12 in place of the Systemdek) and CD player(perhaps a Marantz in place of the CD3) would balance out the sound nicely.The LP12 in particular seems to be designed to work hand in hand with the Naim gear. I'll do a search on the Forum when I get a chance but would anyone care to comment on anything I've mentioned here?

It's good to unplug everything - cables, interconnects, power cords, at least once in three months.

I witnessed a huge improvement in the highs of a top naim system, when this was done. The results of a warm up process can be noticed better by doing this.


Emil

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emil F.:
It's good to unplug everything - cables, interconnects, power cords, at least once in three months.

Emil

---

Emil, I agree entirely. This is a much neglected ( and free ) tip. I last did this about 10 days ago.

I also tidied up my mains and other cables - this also seems to have improved matters.

Faz

I went from 140 to 135s. the improvement was pretty darn dramatic - your view is of course correct for you but it does surprise me....I assume that you knew eg. that the speaker cables connect in a mirror image for each 135? I also assume you use NACA5.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and happy

I'm not surprised you didn't find the 135's a massive improvement on the 140 using a Systemdek. I once tried a 32.5 - Hi-Cap - 140 with my old Rega 3/Elys turntable and it was a disaster. £1800 should get you a decent S/H Sondek, with power supply (Lingo or Armageddon), a Naim ARO (IMO the best tone arm ever) or an Ekos and a decent M/C cartridge if you're lucky.

Mike,
I'm not quite sure what you mean regarding the speaker connections.Surely the + connections on the back of each 135 go to the + connection on the speakers and the same for the - connections. I don't see how they can be mirror images, unless you're suggesting they should be wired out of phase.
Didn't use Naca5. It really doesn't work with the 352's; there has been other postings on the forum that seem to confirm this.
For £1800.00 I honestly cannot say that the difference was dramatic. If it was a £500.00 upgrade then I would have gone for it.

Basil,
would I be right in assuming that you have an LP12 and that the difference between it and the Rega 3 was, shall we say, noticeable?

Armered,
Thanks for clearing up the confusion regarding the connections. I didn't use the Naim speaker connectors, so I'm pretty sure they weren't out of phase.
I still cannot understand why simply reconnecting everything can produce such a big difference in sound. Do the connections really oxidise so much? Maybe I had a dodgy connection. Anyway, if I can tease a bit more bass out the system I'm very tempted to stick with the amps as they are. This was why I wondered if warmer sources would be a better option.
I'd be really interested to hear from anyone who has switched from a Naim CD player to another brand and/or done the upgrade to the LP12.

Faz,

Do the connections really oxidise so much? Maybe I had a dodgy connection.

Connections do oxidise, (even gold plated ones) and unplugging/plugging is the easiest way to clean them.

However, this comment has led me to reconsider your perceived listening preferences. To my ears, and in the context of a reasonable hifi setup, there should be no doubt about the improvements (not differences but improvements) between

Rega Rlanar 3 and LP12 (almost any LP12, but assume it has the most basic power supply and a Rega arm)
140 and 135s
before and after cleaning plugs

The most dramatic improvement, to me, would be the Rega/LP12 (10), followed by the 140/135s (7), with the plug cleaning a long way behind both (1). I have put improvement (scores) in brackets (very subjective!!)

However, we are all different and I wouldn't argue with any one elses scores or perceptions, UNLESS, you were telling me that the magnitude of the 140/135 improvement was similar to the plug-cleaning. In which case, either there was something wrong with the 135s, or there was something wrong with your set-up which the 'plug-cleaning' put right!

Again, your question about LP12 v Rega leads me to think that, at least you and I, have different prefernces in the presentation of recorded music.

We all have our own built-in 'Value for money' evaluator. It depends on taste, disposable income and a host of other intangibles.

Cheers

Don

Don,
I have a nasty feeling there was something not quite right with my set-up which has been inadvertently 'repaired' when I disconnected and reconnected everything.There is so much more detail (although the much sought after bass is still a little elusive) that it's like taking cotton wool out of my ears.

The 135's are back at 'Phase 3'now and I really can't go back and ask for another loan as I think I'll probably piss the guys off! I think that I may have missed an oportunity to do a serious upgrade here. Oh well.

Hi Faz

Why not keep your eye open for a 250 now you fancy an upgrade, almost as good and less than half the price (don’t quote me).

Regards

Stuart

The 135's are back at 'Phase 3'now and I really can't go back and ask for another loan as I think I'll probably piss the guys off!

Its funny how we are sensitive to upsetting people.

The dealer might be desperate to sell the 135s and get his money back. He's almost certainly going to have to lend them to at least one more customer in order to sell them. That might as well be you. Just tell him what you've told us and make it clear that you'll buy if they really are good, you won't if they aren't.

I can understand that many of us feel uncomfortable about having TWO demos before making up our mind, (OH the HORROR), but what's it going to cost the dealer to lend you the amps for a week?

Or, like me, would you feel more comfortable leaving it a few months to ponder, then try for another pair at a different dealer, all to avoid the embarrasment and uncomfortable feeling of committment by asking for TWO trys......

Perhaps some of the dealers here would like to offer their advice on what is acceptable 'demo ettiquet' and what isn't?????

Cheers

Don

PS why not make an appontment and cart your 32.5/140 round to your dealer, together with your cd3, and ask him to demo

cd3/32.5/140
cd3/32.5/135s
better cd/32.5/140
better cd/32.5/135s
his recomended combo

This way you should hear whether the potential benefit of the 135s is being stangled by your cd player (the 32.5 shouldn't be the bottle neck - indeed, this was your first querie!). Also, the dealer has the opportunity to show his true worth, ie help you to realise the best sound within your available budget.

Then, when you've got the basics sorted out, ask him to lend you the bit(s) you're thinking of buying, to try at home for a week or so.

[This message was edited by Don Atkinson on SATURDAY 03 January 2004 at 22:03.]

I am surprised that noboby else has commented about the 32.5 issue. I loved my 32.5 but when I upgraded to an 82 I appreciated the extra detail which I obtained. It is a significant upgrade over a 32.5. To move to 135s before upgrading your pre-amp is IMHO a mistake. I also am however surprised that the the difference between your power amp and the 135s was not significant enough for you want to keep them.
Terry

(the 32.5 shouldn't be the bottle neck - indeed, this was your first querie!).

My edited PS in the above post crossed with Plnnplynn's post.

I agree that the 82 is better than the 32.5 (and your dealer might have one to demonstrate) but the 32.5 was a good amp and shouldn't be stangling the sound to the extent that a 140 and 135s don't sound like £1800 of value difference (IMHO)

Your dealer should help (and not get pissed off as you appear to be expecting) - he has no RIGHT to your money, only a further opportunity!!!! ALL DEALERS are invited to comment on this.

Cheers

Don

Thanks for your input guys. I think what I'll do is give the dealer a ring and have a chat with them. Don't get me wrong, they're excellent chaps at 'Phase 3'(it was them that sold me the 32-5/140 and CD3), but in the last 6 months I've been in and out quite a few times borrowing bits & pieces without actually buying anything.So I can fully understand if they might just possibly see me as a timewaster.

Faz - this reply's a bit late - Blame christmas - but if you want to move to 135s, you really need to change preamp first. Without wishing to start a war, you could really go 72/hi,82hi,82/2*hi/82*Super/52*Super before beginning to think of power amps. All this is without referring to the new series equipment. Truly, if you take the time getting there, you will enjoy it much more.

quote

"if you take time getting there you will enjoy it more"

I agree with this, partly. It will certainly give you the experience of what each individual upgrade makes.

On the other hand, I tend to adhere to the adage:

"life is too short to compromise"

Laurie S