MP3 Players
Posted by: matthewr on 23 April 2003
I recently purchased a portable MP3 player, specifically
Creative Nomad Zen. It looks like this:
It has a 20Gb hard disk on which so far -- using variable bit rate .wma which is more space efficient than MP3 -- I have 297 albums in about 8Gb (ie less than half full) at a quality roughly equivalent to 128k MP3. I cannot begin to tell you how fantastic it is being able to more or less permanently carry around so much music in something a little bigger than a cigarrette packet. Anyone regularly using a portable music player really should get one of these.
If you can buy in or via the US street/internat price is about $250 USD. In the UK the best street price is about £290 (inc. VAT). They no longer seem to sell the Firewire version and it now comes with USB 2.0 as standard (a bit faster than Firewire) for which you may well need to buy a card (about £20 for a 5 port PCI card).
Sound quality is very good for this sort of device. Compared to my mates iPod it sounds cleaner, more dynamic and goes significantly louder (often a problem with MP3 players on noisy tubes and the like). With lossless .wma files and decent headphones it sounds about as good as my Sony Discman. Obviously with lower bitrate wma or mp3 its not as good but perfectly acceptable for mobile listening IMHO. If your portable listening involves a Headroom amp and HD580s its probably not for you though.
On the downside the interface is not the slickest. It has a little scroll wheel that also acts as a button which works well but the LCD is quite small (although it holds as much info as the iPod screen its harder to read. There is a large font option which sacrifices info for readability). The secondary buttons are quite small and fiddly but usuable in practice.
As this is made by Creative the supplied PC software is absolutely terrible. Like all their stuff it will install a stupid splash screen that puts up a Creative logo and pumps 100db of Dolby 5.1 sounds effects through your speakers each time you boot up and will try its very best to get you to tell them your e-mail so they can spam you forever. The software itself (Creative PlayCenter 3) is also typical of Creative Labs -- its lacking in features, poorly designed and is quite possibly the single most hideous piece of software ever designed. This picture doesn't really convey the true disgustingness of its interface.
It does basically work if you can put up with all its foibles but it does insist on taking over your whole life in ripping terms and unless you are prepared to use it as your main player/ripper on your PC it is going to be a pain. All my stuff was already ripped in Windows Media Player and although I could import this into PlayCenter without re-ripping it was very clunky and you wouldn't want to do it on a permanent basis.
You will therefore almost certianly want to budget another $20 for
Notmad Explorer which is much, much better. It happily catalogued and transferred all my existing rips with no fuss and has a decent enough "One Touch Syncho" for future uploads. There will probably be support for MusicMatch before to long as this currently supports the previouce Creative Nomad models.
Also the supplied headphones are pretty average and are those on top of the ear with a band round the back of your head type which I really don't like. Most people will probably already have some better earbuds/headphones from an existing CD walkman or such.
Compared to an iPod the obvious differences are that its much, much cheaper (like £100 less for a 20Gb model), sounds better and supports more formats. The latter was crucial for me as a .wma user since that effectively doubles the capacity compared to an iPod with only MP3 support until better non-MS formats get going. The Zen looks pretty smart but its not nearly as stylish as an iPod if that important to you. No doubt for Mac users iTunes compatabiliy will be a major factor as well (iPod on Windows uses a specific version of MusicMatch rather than iTunes). I think its really a case of are you willing to pay an extra £100 for the sexyness and usability of the iPod over the Zen.
There are other Createive players and similar specced models from Archos but they tend to be significantly more bulky than the Zen or iPod and so I didn't really consider them.
Matthew
Pictures borrowed from
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/creative-zen/Posted on: 23 April 2003 by matthewr
It weighs more than a CD Walkman but is much more compact so I find it far more portable. Its far from heavy and I happily carry mine in an inside pocket of my jacket/coat. Probably a touch too heavy -- 248g (about 2 lbs if my maths is right) to be precise -- for the inside pocket of a suit though.
Also the leather cover has a velco loop on it for attaching it to your belt (although personally I always thought belt attachments of any sort look way too nerdy).
One more thing -- Battery life is claimed at 14 hours compared to 10 for an iPod, This is a major limitation compared to CD walkmen and solid state MP3 players.
Matthew
Posted on: 23 April 2003 by sonofcolin
ipod
Hi Matthew. I use a 10GB ipod with Mac and windows. The best investment you can make for these portables is a headphone amp and a decent pair of headphones. I use an airhead and a pair of sennheisers. The difference is not insignificant! The amp is about the size of a packet of cigarattes and uses 3 AAA batteries.
at 192kb the music is excellent through this set up. With regard to Nomad vs iPod, I think sound quality is limited by the output of the player only and if you use an amp, then this is negated. Have a look at
HeadroomEnjoy
Colin
Posted on: 23 April 2003 by sonofcolin
Jekyll
That depends on the speed of your PC and at what bit rate they are encoded at.
The higher the bit rate (less compression) the faster they will rip.
450Mhz G4 Mac takes about 10 mins to do 70min cd at 192KB/S
Posted on: 23 April 2003 by matthewr
Colin,
I'm aware of the Airhead but frankly sound quality is the last thing I want in an MP3 player if it impacts on portability at all so an amplifier and full "proper" headphones are just about the last thing I'd ever consider. Similarly I'd rather have more music per Gb than bump up the bit rate so I'm happy with variable bit rate .wma (roughly equal to 128k MP3 but at a nominal 64k). Given where I listen to portable music (on noisy buses or tubes, walking around London, etc.) the sound quality I currently get is more than acceptable.
"450Mhz G4 Mac takes about 10 mins to do 70min cd at 192KB/S"
That's very slow. My fairly average 1.4Ghz 2 year old PC will rip a full CD in about 3 or 4 mins. Ripping lossless or to an arbitary bit rate seems to make no difference so I've always assumed it was limited by the extraction rate of the CD drive and (possibly) hard disk write speed rather than processor. I reckon Colin's Mac must have a old CD drive or something and a newer model would be significantly quicker.
Matthew
Posted on: 23 April 2003 by matthewr
I wondered about the Etymotics (the low impedance ones that dont need an amp) but am not convinved they can be justified on an MP3 player and am vaguely worried that 25dB of sound isolation is not a good thing when walking around busy London streets.
Matthew
Posted on: 23 April 2003 by John Channing
Imperial for beginners...
Probably a touch too heavy -- 248g (about 2 lbs if my maths is right) to be precise -- for the inside pocket of a suit though.
Hmm, 248g/(28g/oz) = ~9 ounces. At 16 ounces to the pound that is just over half a pound. Interesting looking device though and I may well get one since I was contemplating the somewhat prettier 20Gb IPod.
John
Posted on: 23 April 2003 by sonofcolin
[I reckon Colin's Mac must have a old CD drive or something and a newer model would be significantly quicker.
]
Yes matthew, it is slow (450MHz)! It is 5 years old and a hybrid mac. However, it has a 48x firewire cd and fast scsi disk. I have a P3 1.8GHz gateway which is faster, but I have all the tunes on the Mac as it is the file server (and it doesn't crash half way through a rip like the PC does).
Having more tracks on a player at a lower bit rate has always intrigued me. Why? 10 GB of 192KB MP3 is far more than I could listen to in the time it takes for the ipod to discharge and I still have a big selection of tunes. Even if I go away for a week, without changing the music, I wouldn't listen to it all! I agree with the portabilty issue. However, the headphone amp sits in the front pocket of my trousers and the ipod is on a belt clip, so no big deal. I also have a bag which will fits them both together for when I'm on my bike.
The Entyomics are excellent headphones, but cleaning them is a pain in the arse and I find them uncomfortable. Horses for courses I suppose.
Colin
Posted on: 24 April 2003 by Steve Catterall
An alternative to the Etymotics is the Sony MDR-EX70, which are similar in the way they work, but are only £35 or so. Quality seems good to me with my iPod, certainly better than any other earbuds I've used and they cut out external sounds very well.
Colin - why have more songs on your iPod. I generally just have one playlist with everything in it playing randomly ... its like having a radio station which just plays your favourite tunes. The more songs you have the greater the variety.
Posted on: 24 April 2003 by matthewr
"its like having a radio station which just plays your favourite tunes"
I was about to post the same reasoning with almost exactly those words. I have a number of playlists -- 'New' for albums I've just bought, "late night", "dance music", etc. -- but unless I am listening to a specific album I have a "Recent Favourites" with 30 or so albums I've really liked in teh last few months and stick that on "repeat shffle" for the radio effect.
The other reasons to have as much space as possible is that I have little interest in copying tunes backwards and forwards when I can just synchronise with a single click to upload new stuff. Also when you have all your CDs with you can obviously listen to whatever you want without having to decide while sat at home using your PC.
For the record I have no interest in buying the Etymotics as they seem over qualified for playing compressed media files and way too expensive for such use. The thought of having to instigate an earwax removal regime was pretty much the clincher.
"An alternative to the Etymotics is the Sony MDR-EX70"
Sony also do a conventional earbud for about £40 that supposedly is significantly better sounding. Anyone know if they are any good? I currently use a pair of £15 Sennheiser earbuds (MX400?) which are better than the Sony ones from my Discman.
Matthew
Posted on: 24 April 2003 by sonofcolin
Steve, Matthew,
I have approx 10GB of music on the ipod. I rarely change it except for when I have added a new cd to the library, where it syncs automatically with itunes when it is plugged into the mac. No hassle really. Playlists are automatically generated after the rip and synced to the ipod as well. I rarely use random play.
The sony earbuds (about $50) I also have and used (can't remember model number, but they are black and gold coloured) before I got the airhead and senns. They are excellent at cutting out background noise and better to use in a gym than conventional designs. The sound quality is also very good. I do however find them uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time.
Posted on: 25 April 2003 by John Channing
If you can buy in or via the US street/internat price is about $250 USD. In the UK the best street price is about £290 (inc. VAT).
Any suggestions where I can get one for these prices? Any reason for the massive UK/US price discrepancy?
John
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by matthewr
"Any suggestions where I can get one for these prices? Any reason for the massive UK/US price discrepancy?"
They are widely available on the net but you would need to know someone in the US to ship it over as a "gift" or else you are likely to get VAT + import duty when it arrives.
The $250 price I saw might be the old discontinued model with Firewire and USB1.1 instead of USB 2.0. AFAICT its the same hardware other than the ports and Firewire is roughly the same as USB 2.0 (I am assuming it will recharge via Firewire as it does with USB 2.0)
For UK purchase they are available on TCR. I paid £310 inc Vat for mine with a cheapo 5 port USB 2.0 card.
Hyde said "Think I might have to get one, but I bet one with the same capacity, but half the weight comes out within a year"
Possibly not. They might well get cheaper as sales volumes increase but as as they are essentially reliant on laptop Hard Disk technology which is relatively mature I doubt they are going to get much smaller.
Matthew
Posted on: 28 April 2003 by matthewr
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by Not For Me
Matthew,
The Creative Nomad Zen - Can you tell me if there are alternative power sources ?
Can you put in other batteries / wall wart power suppliers ?
Or is it only USB?
Thanks
DS
OTD - Burger & Ink - Las Vegas
Posted on: 30 April 2003 by matthewr
David,
It comes with a little 5v mains charger supplied. Charing via USB 2 is significantly slower and wouldn't be practical (not least as you'd also ahve to have the PC on).
Its a sealed unit so no spare batteries I'm afraid. Ther are Lithium-Ion and give about 12-14 hours playing time.
Matthew
Posted on: 01 May 2003 by Timbo
For what its worth I'm changing to an Apple Ipod (30mb) version for PC. I've got a creative 20mb jukebox and it really is the software that lets it down, crashes take too long etc. I'm looking forward to using the firewire connection with the Ipod should take less time to rip the music + the quality of the new Ipod is streets ahead of the old one.
Tim
Posted on: 01 May 2003 by matthewr
Posted on: 01 May 2003 by Steve Catterall
Musicmatch is complete junk. It takes hours to sync with the iPod ... and if, for instance, you change some playlists it insists on retransferring all the MP3 in the list whether they're on the iPod or not.
A MUCH better option is
ephod which will transfer the whole iPod in under 30 minutes, is much easier to use ... and is FREE
Posted on: 01 May 2003 by matthewr
Just for clarification -- Notmad is IMHO the best option for Creative Nomad players on a PC particularly if you already have a Media Player and Ripper (ie Windows Media, Winamp, etc).
Personally I use Notmad + WMP 9 as I already had lots of WMP rips of my CDs and support for .wma effectively doubles the size of your player compared to using MP3.
Matthew
Posted on: 10 May 2003 by John Channing
Just when the choice was looking simple Apple go and bring out a new
IPod.
John
Posted on: 10 May 2003 by matthewr
Yes I should have realised something was afoot when it was obvious hardly anyone had the previous iPods in stock.
Still quite pricey though at £300 for 15Gb but cheap enough that I may well have been seduced by the sexy looks.
Matthew
Posted on: 12 May 2003 by John Channing
New IPod
The 30Gb version is £399, so it's about 50% more expensive than the Zen (at £265 from eBuyer), but has 50% more storage. I had a play with the IPod in John Lewis yesterday and it is tiny. It was playing through a pair of funky looking JBL Creature speakers (satellites + sub) and was making a very respectable sound. I'm definitely tempted and may well pick one up in the airport duty free shop next weekend.
John
Posted on: 12 May 2003 by Johns Naim
Apart from the virutally seamless and effortless integration with iTunes on the Mac, and the speedy firewire connection, I thought the really sexy thing about the new iPod is the support for Mpeg4 AAC codec, which is also VBR as far as I can gather, and reputedly superior to Mp3 from the audio perspective.
Accordingly the iPod seems to make a compelling case for itself on form, function and sound quality points- if only I could afford one :-)
Cheers
John.

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary
Posted on: 12 May 2003 by ErikL
Hello,
I recently found some great resource information in a Wall Street Journal in-depth series on getting decent MP3 sound:
-----
So what do you need to know?
You should pick up LAME 3.90.2 from the link below. Not the most recent version, because 3.90.2 has been subjected to far more rigorous testing (with the ABX stuff) than the newer ones, and a handful of bugs have been found in the newer ones but not in this one.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/extra/LAME/lame3.90.2-ICL.zip Settings for it are here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=15&t=203 Many highly suggest using "--alt-preset standard." It is transparent more than 99% of the time, and usually anything that trips it up will trip up any MP3 encoder. "--alt-preset standard" usually gives you files around 192kbps, sometimes more for difficult files, sometimes less for easy ones.
If you want to have super-duper MP3s, download a copy of Exact Audio Copy (again, from
www.exactaudiocopy.de ), install it, then install LAME 3.90.2, and in EAC change the compression options so that it uses LAME 3.90.2 with "--alt-preset standard." You won't believe your ears.
And if this seems complicated, wait until you get to lossless codecs...
Wander around HydrogenAudio for more info and check the FAQ:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4917Cheers,
-Ludwig-

Posted on: 12 May 2003 by ErikL
Let me know if you want more detailed info from the Wall Street Journal series, and I would be happy to post it here. There's some good stuff on ABX testing and the different file formats, for example.
I didn't want to post it all at once because the length might have scared some readers

-Ludwig-
