Phono stages...
Posted by: Top Cat on 24 July 2002
Hi folks.
I'm planning to change my preamp in the next 12 months or so and the new model, the 3D Six, will have optional phono boards. Although no prices have been announced, these are likely to be quite expensive (£500+, maybe £1000 even).
Anyway, what this means is that I have another choice ahead of me and the idea of an outboard phono stage is therefore back on the agenda.
My question is what phono stages should be auditioned? Assuming the worst, which is that the DNM phono stage boards will be £1000, what is there in this price bracket (preferably at a lot lower cost) which would allow the vinyl to sing.
My current phono boards won't work with the new preamp, I would think.
The only candidates that I've heard reports of are the Microgroove+ and the Ear phono stage. However, getting to hear them might be a little more difficult so if I can draw up a shortlist in advance it would help me make a mistake.
Ta,
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
I'm planning to change my preamp in the next 12 months or so and the new model, the 3D Six, will have optional phono boards. Although no prices have been announced, these are likely to be quite expensive (£500+, maybe £1000 even).
Anyway, what this means is that I have another choice ahead of me and the idea of an outboard phono stage is therefore back on the agenda.
My question is what phono stages should be auditioned? Assuming the worst, which is that the DNM phono stage boards will be £1000, what is there in this price bracket (preferably at a lot lower cost) which would allow the vinyl to sing.
My current phono boards won't work with the new preamp, I would think.
The only candidates that I've heard reports of are the Microgroove+ and the Ear phono stage. However, getting to hear them might be a little more difficult so if I can draw up a shortlist in advance it would help me make a mistake.
Ta,
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 24 July 2002 by Mick P
TC
Loricraft make a ridiculously over engineered one for £850.00 or there abouts.
Regards
Mick
Loricraft make a ridiculously over engineered one for £850.00 or there abouts.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 24 July 2002 by Top Cat
Thanks Mick.
I'd prefer to spend less, if I can find a no-frills unit which delivers the goods. I've also got to factor in the extra expense of decent interconnects if I go down this route, which makes me lean towards the boards, but it just seems like so much money for so little...
Then again, if they deliver the goods...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
I'd prefer to spend less, if I can find a no-frills unit which delivers the goods. I've also got to factor in the extra expense of decent interconnects if I go down this route, which makes me lean towards the boards, but it just seems like so much money for so little...
Then again, if they deliver the goods...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 24 July 2002 by Top Cat
quote:
as for the Microgroove +, that thing is IMHO bloody stunning
Haven't had a chance to hear one, it's just that I keep hearing great things about them.
They're about £700, but by the time I factor in the cost of interconnects it'll take it over £1000 (if I'm to buy some more SPM), so it would have to be good! At least I could skimp in the meantime with cheaper i/cs.
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 24 July 2002 by JosephR
quote:
Originally posted by Top Cat:
My question is what phono stages should be auditioned? Assuming the worst, which is that the DNM phono stage boards will be £1000, what is there in this price bracket (preferably at a lot lower cost) which would allow the vinyl to sing.
You might want to check out the Era Gold + Elevator EXP, GBP 800 !!
http://www.soundscapehifi.com/products.htm#GSP
There are a couple of FAQs in the link above not found in the company website, which is also linked in the above website.
Posted on: 24 July 2002 by David C
TC,
I echo support for the Delphini, I have the newer Mk2 version with large psu. I am really pleased with it in my system. Which like yours is non naim.
David
I echo support for the Delphini, I have the newer Mk2 version with large psu. I am really pleased with it in my system. Which like yours is non naim.
David
Posted on: 25 July 2002 by Frank Abela
Tony
I believe Tom can lower the output if you find the gain too high. Incidentally, it should be around as loud as your CD player on average - if you have a CD player that is!
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
I believe Tom can lower the output if you find the gain too high. Incidentally, it should be around as loud as your CD player on average - if you have a CD player that is!
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
Posted on: 25 July 2002 by Tony L
quote:
I believe Tom can lower the output if you find the gain too high. Incidentally, it should be around as loud as your CD player on average - if you have a CD player that is!
I'd thought of that, though its only slightly louder than the CD. The Nait 2 has a slightly twitchy volume knob, I think thats where my main problem lies. I don't think I'm clipping the line input, though strangely the LP12 does sound a good bit louder than the P9 - I think its just that its fatter. I eventually plan to get the Micro upgraded to a Plus, so might get the gain whacked down a bit then.
Tony.
Posted on: 25 July 2002 by Top Cat
Quick question - has anyone heard the more expensive Groove phono stage and compared it to (say) the Microgroove+?
I know it's quite a bit over budget, but if it really is as good as I've read, I might, just maybe, possibly, save for a while longer and make do with a cheap phono stage in the meanwhile...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
I know it's quite a bit over budget, but if it really is as good as I've read, I might, just maybe, possibly, save for a while longer and make do with a cheap phono stage in the meanwhile...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 25 July 2002 by Andrew Randle
TC,
I would reckon that Tom Evans Design products would be highly suited to your system. Their casework is non-metallic.
Are you planning on using your turntable as a secondary source? If not, then why compromise on the phono stage? You're going to buy a top-line preamp, then a topline phono stage is required or else you're wasting money on the 3D Six.
If vinyl is going to be your primary source, then a good phono stage such as the TE Groove or 3D Six phono boards would be necessity for the 3D Six. Try one against the other.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
I would reckon that Tom Evans Design products would be highly suited to your system. Their casework is non-metallic.
Are you planning on using your turntable as a secondary source? If not, then why compromise on the phono stage? You're going to buy a top-line preamp, then a topline phono stage is required or else you're wasting money on the 3D Six.
If vinyl is going to be your primary source, then a good phono stage such as the TE Groove or 3D Six phono boards would be necessity for the 3D Six. Try one against the other.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"
Posted on: 25 July 2002 by Top Cat
(subtext: isn't it great to be back on broadband?)
Andrew, I'd love to keep vinyl as my primary source, and will make all attempts to do so (including the regular trips to record fairs) but I rather think that there will come a time when it's just not possible to get enough 'sustenance' from the dregs available in and around the record stores up here. Agree with your comments about the preamp and ensuring that there isn't a weak link in the chain, but nevertheless I want to know what is going to be the best for me. I also wonder whether there's going to be that much difference between (say) a £750 phono stage and a £1500 one, especially when used with a sub £1000 cartridge (my Sigma Gold)
I would dearly like to, believe me. However, the 3D Six isn't ready yet and I'm trying to draw up a shortlist. I suspect the built-in 3D Six phono boards will indeed be something special, but in the meantime it's useful to get that list whittled down to the best of the external phono stages.
I've also to factor the cost of decent interconnects in, which might exclude something as pricy as a Groove, but nevertheless I could get by with a lesser IC and upgrade that later if need be...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
quote:
Are you planning on using your turntable as a secondary source? If not, then why compromise on the phono stage? You're going to buy a top-line preamp, then a topline phono stage is required or else you're wasting money on the 3D Six.
Andrew, I'd love to keep vinyl as my primary source, and will make all attempts to do so (including the regular trips to record fairs) but I rather think that there will come a time when it's just not possible to get enough 'sustenance' from the dregs available in and around the record stores up here. Agree with your comments about the preamp and ensuring that there isn't a weak link in the chain, but nevertheless I want to know what is going to be the best for me. I also wonder whether there's going to be that much difference between (say) a £750 phono stage and a £1500 one, especially when used with a sub £1000 cartridge (my Sigma Gold)
quote:
If vinyl is going to be your primary source, then a good phono stage such as the TE Groove or 3D Six phono boards would be necessity for the 3D Six. Try one against the other.
I would dearly like to, believe me. However, the 3D Six isn't ready yet and I'm trying to draw up a shortlist. I suspect the built-in 3D Six phono boards will indeed be something special, but in the meantime it's useful to get that list whittled down to the best of the external phono stages.
I've also to factor the cost of decent interconnects in, which might exclude something as pricy as a Groove, but nevertheless I could get by with a lesser IC and upgrade that later if need be...
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 25 July 2002 by Mark Dunn
Good evening chaps:
The following was posted today on the VinylAsylum today (7/25) regarding the Loricraft phono stage. The poster was Jonathan Carr no less (designer of the Lyra catridges):
>Karel:
If the unit that you are considering is anything like the early version that I have, it is a _stunner_ for the money. Not hard, nor harsh, but neither is it soporifically smooth. Frequency extension is not breath-taking, nor are the dynamics earth-shaking, but most of the music is there. And what is there is articulate, has good detail, well fleshed-out instrumental timbres, bouncy rhythms, and a cheerful and engaging personality overall. Makes listening fun.
And the tagboard physical construction should lend itself to tweaking quite easily.
I would suggest that Nigel Peason's baby handily outclasses most of the "affordable" category
suggestions that I have seen on this forum. But again, it could be just my personal preferences
(grin).
gotta run, jonathan carr<
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
The following was posted today on the VinylAsylum today (7/25) regarding the Loricraft phono stage. The poster was Jonathan Carr no less (designer of the Lyra catridges):
>Karel:
If the unit that you are considering is anything like the early version that I have, it is a _stunner_ for the money. Not hard, nor harsh, but neither is it soporifically smooth. Frequency extension is not breath-taking, nor are the dynamics earth-shaking, but most of the music is there. And what is there is articulate, has good detail, well fleshed-out instrumental timbres, bouncy rhythms, and a cheerful and engaging personality overall. Makes listening fun.
And the tagboard physical construction should lend itself to tweaking quite easily.
I would suggest that Nigel Peason's baby handily outclasses most of the "affordable" category
suggestions that I have seen on this forum. But again, it could be just my personal preferences
(grin).
gotta run, jonathan carr<
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Posted on: 26 July 2002 by Not For Me
It is brilliant.
If you can stretch your budget, go for it. It really does throw open the window (cliche alert!)
It is pacey, dynamic and musical, but not shrill.
I wanted something to better the 52 phono stage. The prefix is the same cards, nearer the cartridge, and also is known for being RFI sensitive.
The Groove removed all my RFI issues - no Radio Hungary breakthrough.
DS
OTD - Whip up a storm - Magnifique
If you can stretch your budget, go for it. It really does throw open the window (cliche alert!)
It is pacey, dynamic and musical, but not shrill.
I wanted something to better the 52 phono stage. The prefix is the same cards, nearer the cartridge, and also is known for being RFI sensitive.
The Groove removed all my RFI issues - no Radio Hungary breakthrough.
DS
OTD - Whip up a storm - Magnifique