Most over rated ever?

U2 a 5/10 band. I can never understand why media go on so much about Bono & U2. Alright he has a good voice and the guitarist has established his own sound (even though its limited )But one can hardly describe the music inspiring or to lose sleep over...? So whats all the fuss..?
At the same time sticking to Irish Bands I find the Progues underated. Ben McGowan may drink a lot but he certainly has a talent for writing songs certainly in the same ilk as John Lennon.

Rommy

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Originally posted by Ron The Mon:
And whoever said Bill Laswell; you're nuts. Most people don't know who he is, which should be a criteria.

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any artist can be overrated in their own scene, genre, or subculture. underground/indie artists often follow the same patterns of promotion and popularity that "mainstream" artists do just on a smaller scale. just read the anarcho-street-cred verbage from the axiom records web site:

"DESTROY ALL RATIONAL THOUGHT"
and
"These pages are not about commerce or 'product.' They are about music and art."

what these hip statements don't tell you is about how much money bill laswell has made for the gigantic island records. the same island records that sued the stew out of negativland for their cut-up/reworking of u2's 'i still haven't found what i'm looking for.' the lawsuit nearly destroyed the band. maybe its only just a little bit about commerce?

in all honesty, i like some (much) of his music and axiom has released a lot of great records. but this anarcho-artist image that he manufactures and is "popular" for, is just a bit too much hype...

[This message was edited by soundzero on WEDNESDAY 15 May 2002 at 08:03.]

I would definately go with that suggestion; I also think they take themselves too seriously!

Costello of course.

If ever there was a man who made a career out of, approximately, 3 half decent songs he is it. Plus he had the audacity to say he knew a bit about songwriting on Later the other week. Who is he trying to kid! Over rated pretentious oik with his head up his own rrrs.

PS Include U2, Manic Street Preachers, Bon Jovi, Bruse Springsteen, Prince and Will Young in there too.

My top 5 "Can't see the point of you releasing any more albums"

1. Bob Bylan
2. Van Morrison
3 The Rolling Stones
4. Frank Zappa (even if dead)
5. Genesis

Listening to Sinead O'Connor while I type this - so she is definetely not on the list. Here goes:

Carlos Santana (I really don't get it)
Sting (A few good songs)
Macy Gray (one good song)

A to stick a plug in for one of Ireland's lost talents - definetely not over-rated - Something Happens

The Corrs appear to be a good looking family but what banal boring songs they come out with!

There should be a competition held as to which child would fall asleep first listenning to the Corrs..............?

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The Corrs ZZZZZZZZZ Snorezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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It's difficult to fall alseep with your eyes wide open

Jay

A couple of years ago, I wouldn't have made an effort to defend Elvis Presley. To tell you the truth, he was near the top of my list (alongside Marilyn Monroe, James Dean and Robert Kennedy Jr.) of fabricated American heroes. It's really hard to erase the fat Vegas Elvis decked out in a Ronco Rhinestone-stetter's fantasy suit from one's mind. Yet, if you look at it objectively and with a modicum of insight, this is merely an extremely unusual extension of the rock-star's inevitable tragedy into sustained popular attention. You see, all the 1950's equivalents of Mick Parry's social crowd couldn't really share in the Elvis euphoria while the man was still cool but quickly jumped at the opportunity well over a decade later once corporate America schlocked him up and watered him down enough for the "Wonder Bread" crowd.

It may be difficult to appreciate in our time, but just imagine a white boy making it really, really big with an American 50's white audience by singing what was fundamentally scandalous black music. Think carefully. Consider the social climate and you're forced to conclude The Sex Pistols were sissies by comparison. Then, feel free to forget entirely about context, spin a recording of "Mystery Train" and then just try to put up a wanker like Elvis Costello against it.

Just like our very own Stallion, Elvis may not have been the brightest penny in the jar, but he was a natural rock star (the Stallion analogy stops before this), arguably the first ever rock star. Costello, on the other hand, is the perfect example of how post-modernism can turn banality into a rock-star. The key ingredient is an absence of genuine concept/talent/tune cleverly presented/marketed in a chique/detached manner that makes you question your ability to appreciate something so avant-garde. Rather than stick to the (correct) gut reaction of it being a pile of pretentious, boring shite and suffer the potential humiliation of being un-cool, you convince yourself that Costello's incompetence is actually some sort of impenetrable artistic complexity.

To those of you who happened to watch the classic "Larry Sanders Show" episode and are intelligent enough to understand what I've just written, Hank's famous "you're not Elvis" line must rank among the greatest comedic moments in history.

Vuk.

[This message was edited by Vuk Vuksanovic on SATURDAY 25 May 2002 at 05:50.]

Vuk

it's great to see you back here, and on form, to boot.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Was it not fair to say that U2 are just coming out of a period where they said 'fuck you' to their record label who had asked them to make more 'popular' music.

Which they duely did with all this stadium tours and god awful music which apparently they knew full well about but did it any way to piss said record label off.

What they didn't account for was that the americans will listen to any old shit and they became even more popular.

Mind you thats no excuse for the video Rattle & Hum which is so Anal I think they turned themselves inside out.

And The Flat can't play guitar. To say that he has excellent timing with his strumming is like shoting fish in a barrel.

So yes I have just defeated my own argument, U2 are over rated, I will get my coat.

Vuk Vuksanovic

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Costello, on the other hand, is the perfect example of how post-modernism can turn banality into a rock-star. The key ingredient is an absence of genuine concept/talent/tune cleverly presented/marketed in a chique/detached manner that makes you question your ability to appreciate something so avant-garde. Rather than stick to the (correct) gut reaction of it being a pile of pretentious, boring shite and suffer the potential humiliation of being un-cool, you convince yourself that Costello's incompetence is actually some sort of impenetrable artistic complexity..

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So he's not one of your favourites, eh?

"...Rather than stick to the (correct) gut reaction of it being a pile of pretentious, boring shite and suffer the potential humiliation of being un-cool, you convince yourself that Costello's incompetence is actually some sort of impenetrable artistic complexity.."

Nah, i just think it's shite!

I used to really like Elvis C but now his voice drives me nuts! Up there with Dylan in the drone department.

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To those of you who happened to watch the classic "Larry Sanders Show" episode and are intelligent enough to understand what I've just written,

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Well that disposes of 99% of the population and the other 1% would not waste their time on either.

cheers

Nigel

miles davis and mozart.

the former could not play the trumpet, the latter was only composing nice background music. any objections???

So guys

The summation of this thread seems to indicate that, having dismissed most of the musical icons of the last few centuries, we come to the following conclusion:

Only the following are not overrated:

Jazz - John Dankworth
Classical - Richard Strauss
Popular- Kajagoogoo

Is this because they are really supremely great or because they were never rated in the first place. I leave it to you to decide.

I have to step up to a mild defence of Elvis Costello, though. Ok, a certain grating pretence has crept into the man and some of his more ambitious works, and tonally his voice isn't as syruppy as others. But the man has always had valid things to say and, underlying the rock'n'roll bluster, there are fine tunes to underpin those songs. Not every song is great, but none of them are as bad as 99% of everything else that clogs our broadcast systems.

And Frank Zappa - truly one of the most authentic musical (and lyrical) talents of the last century.

Reading some of the discussions this thread has opened makes yuou wonder why many of the forumites have a music reproduction system at all.

Blandness is the real enemy of creative thought and muscial satisfaction.subtlety is something entirely different.

CZ

What important music did he compose apart from "Also sprach Zarathustra" that rightly ended as the music for a beer commercial?

And please... Kajagogoo!!! nice hairdos. that's it. and who the ... is john dankworth anyway?

Chaps

Herewith my nominations for the most vile and awful singers ever.

1. The Sex Pistols......this drugged up bunch of yobbos made a racket which was only appreciated by a load of doped up dipsticks.

2. Joan Baez.....self pretentious and weak voiced. Sang one thing and did the opposite in her own life...the first champagne socialist.

3. Tracey Chapman.....useless. Talked a tune.

4. Eva Cassidy.....a nothing voice.....died at the right time and made the music industry a fortune.

5. Cliff Richards......do I really need to explain.

6. Robert Plant....why? he is bloody useless and yet he loves himself.

7. Russel Watson.......2nd rate

8. Jerry Lee Lewis......I just give up when I hear his racket.

9. Bob Dylan arrogant and sings like a dying diesel engine.

10. Pete Seager....nothing special, I have heard better in the local pub.

Thats my top ten of over rated has beens.

Regards

Mick
9.

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Originally posted by Thorsten:
miles davis and mozart.

the former could not play the trumpet, the latter was only composing nice background music. any objections???

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I object.

hi fred,

me too. it only stroke me funny how long it took that someone objected. :-)

I was attempting a little satire. Richard Strauss gave us nothing of import, Kajagoogoo (any crap and would do) and John Dankworth is kind of jazz-lite guitar, husband of Cleo Lane (jazz-lite singer with improbably frizzy hair).

Maybe lost something in the cultural translation.

CZ
Still apoplectic that anyone could think Black Sabbath better than Led Zeppelin!

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What important music did he compose apart from "Also sprach Zarathustra?"
Richard Strauss gave us nothing of import....

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I take it neither of you guys go to the opera much (or at all) - Electra, Salome, Die Frau Ohne Schatten, Der Rosenkavalier - just some examples of why Strauss is not overrated. As for other works such as Four Last Songs, Metamorphosen, Don Quixote, Death and Transfiguration etc, etc. Yes you can criticise Strauss - the fact that his music is not necessarily always the most profound is well documented. However, there are plenty of top rate works that the world would be a lot poorer without.

hi career zombie,

i got the satire alright. nothing's been lost in the cultural translation. i only think that the whole thread throws a somewhat, hmm, strange light upon us.

it seems to be consensus that it is fashionable to dislike whats successful and like what's hardly known outside a group of insiders. maybe not everybody thinks so, but i think quite a few of us have this attitude. i cannot agree.

don't get me wrong: take for instance phil collins. i do not believe that his music will be one of the stepstones of musical history. at the same time i wonder why so many find it hard to accept that he, and most of his musicians, are excellent performers who know very well how to play. wherever his place in history will be (let time judge) quite a few seem to dismiss craftmanship of a musician when he or she turns out to be too successful.

call me naive - i happen to respect the achievements of most of the artists or composers that are on the scene for a long time and have been damned in this forum once or twice. bruce springsteen for his energy, beatles for their wit. mozart for his speed and accuracy of composing, miles davis for his ability to make musicians play better stuff than they ever thought they were able to do. the list goes on and on.

all this is written on the assumption that the definition of overrated is something like this:
that a musician did not have that strong an influence on other musicians than is generally thought.

if overrated is translated with "sold too much copies for the music he plays, others deserved wider recognition" that's a completely different matter.

after reading this thread i got the feeling that hardly any musician matches the demands of the forum. which is a shame.