Canadian spur info...

I just added a spur in St. Catharines and the difference was easily like spending $2000 on new eqipment. I would say you have in a way you/we waisted investment funds on equipment if you don't have a dedicated spur. It just isn' right without it. Of course your house may not be as bad as mine was. Do it you will be real happy

Ken

Hi Ken

What I am really looking for is more design information. The evidence seems to support a dedicated spur (I tried the extension cord from the stove but my wife keeps tripping over it)so I am convinced that it will help..I am looking more for the following type of information.

Should I put in a seperate subpanel off the main line, types of circuit breakers, types of wire ( what guage ), type of receptacle etc.

#5

Mike Hanson.. I read an old thread of yours with interest on your spur....care to share your knowledge?

Do the spur, hugh improvement. When I built my new house I went in and ran the spurs myself. I ran two 12 ga line on seperate breakers my adivc is to run at least three possibly four if you can swing it. I use one for cd and the other for power and hicap. The snaps is on a genral use one and so is the tuner and tape deck. If you system includes TV/dvd ie theater stuff then run four. FYI my two runs cost me less then $140 total.

Steve

Stephen

Did you run seperate lines to the top and bottom of each receptacle (two seperate spurs per receptacle ) and what type of redeptacle did you use. How bout you silo

5

I simply put 3 spec grade hubbel receptacles in a plastic receptacle box. This gives 6 outlets total all on one dedicated line.

I am happy but I suppose 2 dedicated lines would be better. No room left in the panel.

I have used the hubbels in plastic conduit type box and a spec grade plug with solid core house wireing as a home made power bar again all connected internaly using pigtails (short pieces of wire twisted together with the main supply).

Ken

I have 6 spaced left in my panel. I have my listening system (Naim) on one floor and the big screen surround system(Harmon Kardon and Sony DVD below downstairs) I can use the narrow space saving breaker that allows two circuits in the same space as one fuse and I think I will wire both systems at the same time. Thanks for your help and I will post when the job is done.

Thanks
#5

quote:

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Originally posted by Number 5:
I am considering the addition of a couple of new boxes and only have a single duplex outlet behind my system. I suppose I have a few options.....

1) Some type of "power bar" or,

2) The infamous "dedicated spur"

The first option is fairly straight forward....order the Naim recommended power bar and a short drive to Naim central on Mt. Pleasant in Toronto (a fun place) or number two spent many hours at the keyboard asking questions, measuring the runs,planning,installing and the finally the the surge of pure Pickering nuclear power out of my speakers...mmmm..so..from a Canadian perspective what is the ultimate spur. I have a ten year old house with room in the electrical panel and fairly easy access to the area below my system(sistem) to run wiring to a new spur. I would appreciate any information on design, wiring,plugs etc.

Thanks#5

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hehe. how are you my fellow canadian? Our Pickering Nuke center is at 50 percent of its glorious power (4 unit down). I think the best way is to buy a standard power bar (may be a good one in home depot) then open it up and remove the circuit protection by reconnecting a few line (it is very easy and simple) and use it as a multi-sockets outlet. You pay a minimum $$ this way. Just for you info, I work in the nuclear sector and was a part of the Pickering tewam to retsart our nuke station. They will come online soon.

quote:

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Just for your info, I work in the nuclear sector and was a part of the Pickering tewam to retsart our nuke station. They will come online soon.

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Now that's interesting. We have something else in common. I worked as a summer student one summer in the late 70's while reactors 5-8 were being built. There was a huge amount of fog ducking going on and it's a wonder it ever got built. I only pushed a broom so I can't be at all held responsible for any problems.

Considering I can get a roll of 12/2 wire for fifty bucks and run all the wires myself and simply have an electrician do the final hookup I still think I will do that. Besides my family think I have lost it anyways with this new found Naim obsession so I might as well run some spurs and have a little fun!! My daughter keeps asking me if I have fed the little boxes as I made the mistake of telling her I have to leave them on to keep them warm.

Thanks guys

#5

My advices:
Use 10/2 NMD90, unshielded runs.
New breakers 20 amps (see warning) on your existing panel if quite new, or on an other panel, but you will need it done by an electrician, as it must be pluged directly under the main breaker, not on a sub circuit of the main panel.
The breakers must be on the cleaner phase (avoid the phase of the HVAC, furnace burner, fridge..). It is good to ask the electrician to place all dirty devices on the same phase. He is the only one who can do this while keeping the phases' curents balanced.
As for wall sockets, use isolated ground, industrial or hospital grade 20 amps (Leviton or Hubbel), the orange ones.
If you want to go with a power bar, the Wiremold is the one to have, or if you are a DIYer, buy a metal one (15$ at Home Depot) redo the wiring, by-pass the switch, lamp, breaker, spike remover and all those crasy things.

Now the bad news, it is illegal to use a 30 amp breaker with a sub 30 amps wall socket. Unfortuately, regular sockets are not available at 30 amps. Even the 20 amps are not standard they are the (| +) type instead of (| |) but you can plug a regular plug in it.

If you want to be perfectly legal, use wall sockets with the rating you want and use the same rating breakers, 30 Amps will do with a 10/2 cable. Make an hydra with the matching plug et voila.

Don't forget to check your main ground circuit. It must be connected on the city water entrance the closest as possible to the ground, so, on the first inches of the pipe in the house. It must be perfectly clean with very tight contacts. Put grease on the collar to prevent oxidation.
Of course a ground pole is better, but it is a nightmare to install properly. In my experience the ground is very often better on the water pipe. Very few electricians know what they do regarding grounding.


Have fun.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

[This message was edited by Manu on THURSDAY 30 January 2003 at 06:19.]

More great advice thanks guys!!

#5

Number 5 asked

quote:

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Mike Hanson.. I read an old thread of yours with interest on your spur....care to share your knowledge?

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Here's what I did:

• My circuit panel had only one free breaker, and it was on the side with much of the heavy hitters (stove, dryer, furnace, etc.). So I moved one of the circuits from the "quiet" side of the panel onto the noisy one, freeing up a breaker on the quiet side.
  
• I haven't actually changed the breaker from the existing 15-amp to a larger 20 or 30 amp breaker. I'll get around to that at some time.
  
• I ran 4 individual 12-gauge, multi-stranded wires out the side wall of my house, through conduit to the outside of my stereo room, and then back into the house. (That's the sad part of having a fully finished basement with stipple ceiling, etc. I'm not sure what the prior owner was thinking.)
  
• I'm currently using only 3 of the 4 wires, because I've got only the one circuit. If I ever decide to add a subpanel to my box, then I'll move some of the house's other stuff onto that subpanel, leaving the existing and new stereo circuits on the current panel.
  
• The wires are terminated on a Bryant hospital-grade outlet. IIRC, the brass screws are changed to nickel, although I'm not sure of this.
  
• If I change to two circuits in the future, I'll snip the connector on the plug, so that the top is on one circuit, and the bottom on another.
  
• I have a custom power bar made with Bryant plugs of the same type. The power cord is a very heavy duty wire with a captive molded plug on the end. Although I didn't build the bar, I believe the plugs are connected in a bus fashion, rather than star.
  
• The gear is plugged in with source nearest the input wire, and power amps furthest away.
  
• I've also replaced the ground clamp on my water pipe with a pure copper clamp. The old one was very corroded. Since the copper clamp is on a lead pipe, I expect it to corrode again, so I'll be changing the clamp every year or two.
  

Other than that, I can't recall anything special.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

quote:

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I think the best way is to buy a standard power bar (may be a good one in home depot) then open it up and remove the circuit protection by reconnecting a few line (it is very easy and simple) and use it as a multi-sockets outlet. You pay a minimum $$ this way.

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don't do this, any power bar that you will find in a shop is crap. They're cheap for a reason.

as a short term improvement,

buying a Hammond 1584 hospotal grade powerbar gave good results with my system.

Hammond manufacturing

when you live in appartment, this is the best one can do!

What is the benefit of upgrading the breakers from 15 amp to 20 or 30 amp?

quote:

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Originally posted by Philippe Dancause:
as a short term improvement,

buying a Hammond 1584 hospotal grade powerbar gave good results with my system.

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My power bar is basically a reworked Hammond.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

5,

Sorry for the delay (I finally got to work at 1pm). I ran a duplex recpticle for each line, trying to wire two thicker guage conductor into a single gange box was something I did not want to try. Definitly use Hubble 20 amp recepticles and 20 amp breakers (use that same brands as you main box as some brands are not interchangable). My plugs as also independent of eachother and the power runs come from the main panel but always run at least one stud or floor just away from eachother.

Steve

Number 5 asked

quote:

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What is the benefit of upgrading the breakers from 15 amp to 20 or 30 amp?

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The bigger the breaker, the less of a bottleneck. It's roughly the same as with fuses.

Barnaby commented:

quote:

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I know if I drill holes on the wall and run wires on the outside of the house, my wife will throw me and my system out of the house.

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If I had to rip out half the ceiling in the basement, I wife would not be too happy. As it is, there was already a bunch of "utility" stuff where it came out of the wall. I ran it along an existing bridge plate between the first and second floors, and then back down near the back of the house. It actually doesn't look bad at all.

quote:

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I thought Naim recommends the other way round.

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Yes, this is an interesting congruity. Most North Americans who I know have determined that the best order here is not the same as it is over in the U.K. Don't ask me why; I just listen with my ears.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

What's the scoop with Hubble. Are they better than Leviton. I have a 20 amp Leviton from Home Depot that cost $18 plus taxes. I replaced the 99cent one in the ring circuit with the $18 one and imagine I can hear the difference. I am hoping the spur will leave nothing to the imagination.

Keep the info coming
#5

5
IMO, Hubble are not sounding better than Leviton. They are just more expensive and less easy to find. Go with the Leviton.

Mike,
does your sistem sounds better in winter. The cable outside of your house is a step toward supraconduction. We are interested in your answer, 'cause here in MTL, winters are colder than in TGA

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Manu asked:

quote:

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does your sistem sounds better in winter. The cable outside of your house is a step toward supraconduction. We are interested in your answer, 'cause here in MTL, winters are colder than in TGA

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Although I considered the possibility, I honestly doubted that the approximately 40°C variation would be enough to notice sonically. However, if we ever get a day that's -250°C or colder, I'll let you know whether my system sounds better.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

I think I am going to get my heavy duty extension cord out when I get home tonight and try connecting my sistem to the stove and/or the receptacle off the breaker panel....hopefully my wife and kids won't have to witness this...all that head shaking and eye rolling

#5

IIRC, JV's take on the subject was that a single dedicated spur was best. He often suggested that those using multiple spurs to feed, say, their amps on one spur and their sources on another, try using just the one with either a hydra connection or a mains distribution block.

Some have reported getting the best results from using multiple spurs with a common ground (i.e. strapping the grounds at the outlet boxes such that only one cables ground wire is connected back to the panels ground/seperate ground point).

I haven't experimented with the later but can report that using modified Hammond (switch/light & circuit breaker removed) and Wiremold blocks connected to the stove's front panel socket will give you a good idea of what a single dedicated spur has to offer.


Craig

The first thing I am going to say when I get home tonight is..."honey I hope your not cooking dinner"

Well just spent the last hour hooked up to the stove and.....not much improvement..kinda disappointed...however was competing with the kids downstairs watching a home theatre movie and my other son downloading from the net so it was hard to concentrate. I will give it another try when the house is quieter. I will be away for a week and will have to try later in February.

#5