Arms

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:

Also, possibly, another option would be to have the full Origine Live modifiactions to the RB300 which will work out at about £230 with BNC plugs.

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I'd have thought the Origin Live mods would be worth a shot giving they don't cost much. I'll probably get my Rega arm done at some point.

By they way it appears to be commonly accepted that an OL modded RB250 is better than an OL modded RB300 so you might also want to consider a the fully modded 250's that OL sell.

Regards
Steve

almost every tonearm will work on the Garrard, I heard the Zeta, the ARO, the Moerch UP4 and many others performing superbly with that old 401. I owned a 401 from 1990 to 1997 and tried about 20 tonearms with it.

Just avoid overly cozy things, like Fidelity Research FR-64FX, Sumiko FT-3 or SME 309. Things will get boring then. As the 401 has a slight tendency to sound warm itself, it is best partnered with dynamic and fresh sounding tonearms. Modern constructions like E.T. 2.0 air bearing things will work great.

regards,
Hartmut, tonearm collector/tester/restorer from Munich

So, before bunging over a grand at a SMEIV I'd throw 300 at a Rega P3 and live with that for a while just to be sure.

Then, if I wanted the 401 as a serious turntable for listening I'd probably get the SME. The 401 experts recommend it, and I'm not the sort of person who expects something for nothing: the Origin Live modded Rega arms are sold on that premise but seem to end up costing really rather a lot. I trust Rega and SME to know what they're doing.

OTOH I might end up with the Garrard in the dining room and enjoy it for what it is, and source(!) something else for listening to in my main system.

If Mick wanted to borrow an LP12, in modest spec, that could be arranged.

Paul

If I take the plunge I'll post my thoughts after a few days of listening.

Milan

Thanks for the info.......it's all food for thought.

To Paul Ranson....The Garrard was built in Swindon, so yes there is a high demand for the 301 and 401 in the locality.

Both of these models were built to exacting standards and although expensive, were subsidised by the cheaper models.

The main complaint with the 401 in particular was rumble. This was blamed on the direct drive when the newer models were belt driven.

Garrard was a typical UK company in the sense that a well built product was let down by bad marketing and after sales. The 401 was sold at a high price and the customer had to buy his own plinth, all of which were all built down to a price. They were mostly thin boxes of plywood, which was stained and varnished to look good. The reality was that putting the 401 in a cheap plinth was a sonic disaster, the result was awful.

Today, Terry Sullivan of Loricraft has a full time business restoring 301's/401's as well as manufacturing the 501 with PSU's and record cleaners. His website is www.garrard501.com

The original plywood plinth was quarter of an inch thick, the Loricraft plinth is one and one eigth of an inch thick solid wood. Measurements are , I think, 23" x 17" x 5". Mine is made from American Ash and it weighs a ton. The table is supported by four squash balls, and this totally cures the old rumble problem. The acrylic cover is hand made and the whole thing is pure craftsmanship. It looks great mounted on the Hutter.

The sound went up through the roof after mounting it in the new plinth and even with a RB300 arm sounds good.

The owner of Audio T (Simon)from Reading has heard it and admitted it was equal, if not better, to most LP12's. He was surprised on how good it sounded.

It is certainly more robust than the LP12 and it will see me out. By strange coincidence, one of my Senior Buyers worked for Garrards and was responsible for ensuring that the aluminium alloy platter was perfectly in balance and it had to be spot on to pass inspection. He could often take half a day getting it right.

I want to get a good arm to finish it off, and I also take Stallions point that the PSU will push it up a few notches.

Only problem is that Mrs Mick is casting her eyes on 32" flatscreen TV's, so the arm may have to wait a couple of months. I think arms are the one thing that is best bought new. Second hand seems very high risk to me.

Regards

Mick

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It is certainly more robust than the LP12 and it will see me out.

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I don't see robustness, weight or size as a particularly good reason to champion a turntable. OTOH if you like it then what more is necessary? Plan to buy the SME, it will be pleasing to own.

I was serious about the LP12, it's sitting in a box in the loft. Valhalla and LVX. Probably not fitted with a functional cartridge though. (There's an RB300 available on an older arm board.) Perhaps I should fit a basic MM pickup and send it out on a mission?

Paul

Adding a PSU to a Garrard works wonders. The PS delivers just enough voltage so that the platter will turn at the right speed, normally you have to apply some of the eddy current break, with a PS there's no need. As the voltage reduces the vibrations in the motor are reduced, my 401 keeps getting better through a listening session because as it warms up I can reduce the voltage further. I would say that if you are interested in spending 300GBP get the OL250 and sell off your 300, word has it that the maxed out 250 is the one to have. If you've got £1K then beat Terry down to a reasonable price.

Some aficionados of the 401 claim that too much mass is a bad thing, I'm currently using a homemade plinth based on the design of Martin Bastin (The 401 doctor ) It weighs 22kg, that's fine now, but as I intend to keep the 401, I'm afraid it'll be too heavy for me to lift when I'm old and decrepid.

I'm warming my wife up to the idea of a Fraim for the 401 and it's power supply

I bought some LPs this weekend at a record fair and the 401 really let's what's in the grooves come out, I found a japanese pressing of 'Everybody Digs Bill Evans', which played back on the Garrard rig just knocks any Cd into the dust!

Peter

The SME IV is a safe bet given the engineering and that it's known to work well with the Garrards.

Have a word with Terry about the Schroeder arm. I saw it in action at the show and was very impressed indeed (though I didn't hear it). It's a unique design and I spent some time chatting with Frank Schroeder about it - his dedication and exactitude is second to none.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

I'm not surprised about the LP12. The ARO/Arkiv combination seemed to be a mismatch when I tried it - bright, splashy and generally nasty, no idea why!

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

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Originally posted by Daveyp:
Clearly there are those who have an affinity with rumble frequencies, which is fair enough.

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Dave,

I can assure you that a properly prepared 301/401 does not rumble, times like a metronome and will tell you exactly what is on the record. If the record was adequately recorded, it will also cast a huge soundstage.

Peter

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Originally posted by sybil:
Any info on the Koshin GST801 tonearm, and also the Fidelity Research FR24?

J

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I once had the GST-801, I got it with a Planar 3 turntable, and tested it on my Garrard 401. It was ringing and much too light sounding. The VTA base had a lot of play. I sold it again two weeks later.

Never had or heard the FR-24.

regards,
Hartmut from Munich

The main reason for the 401's poor reputation was the next to useless plinths that housed them.

The Loricraft plinth just makes it perfect.

I have a Hutter stand and the 401 sounds the same whether is is plonked on the floor, plonked on the Hutter or even on the Hutter with a few layers of the Vuk isolation assembly underneath. The plinth just cures everything.

You will remain sceptical until you hear it and that is a great shame.

I played a secret garden record last night and it was superb.

Regards

Mick

From what I have gathered, these decks benefit greatly from substantial plinths due to their having been developed prior to the advent of stereo LP records. In particular, these turntables were designed to exhibit very good lateral rumble performance somewhat at the expense of vertical noise performance, as the records of the time contained no (intentional) vertical information, nor were the pickups designed to 'read' vertical modulation.

It is my understanding that the substantial plinths that are now being used with these motor units help sink much of the vertical noise, and allow the table to perform well with stereo records and cartridges.

I have also surmised that a substantially rigid tonearm, like the Rega and SME cast tube designs, when mounted in such a fixed relationship with the motor unit via these plinths, will better keep the uncontrolled energies in sync between the motor unit and pickup (therefore cancelling out much of the negative vertical effects upon the music signal). This theory also accounts for much of the preference for Decca pickups among purists, as the Decca's positive scanning design dates back to the mono cartridge and is quite resistant to pure vertical modulation (hence their reputation as poor trackers).

What is left is more or less the difference between motor drive systems. The very direct idler wheel drive is said to provide a very solidly 'driven' bass line that is more evident in the Garrard than the Thorens (which employs a belt driven idler wheel).

Of course I could be way off on this.

Craig