140 for Fronts - underpowered ?
Posted by: cimman on 03 January 2008
I'm using the 140 for my stereo music and they suffice. However, when I'm using it for movies, they seem underpowered. Just don't have the ommph.. and it's not loud enough even at 0db levels.
Most HT amps are rated 100 watts and above, typically 150 watts. The better ones are rated 200 watts or more.
Is the 140 underpowered for HT use ?
If it is, then Naim amps are not suitable for HT use as the top of the line amp is only rated 150 watts and that is way beyond my budget.
Most HT amps are rated 100 watts and above, typically 150 watts. The better ones are rated 200 watts or more.
Is the 140 underpowered for HT use ?
If it is, then Naim amps are not suitable for HT use as the top of the line amp is only rated 150 watts and that is way beyond my budget.
Posted on: 04 January 2008 by Roy Donaldson
Hi there,
I've previously used 3 x NAP140's to run my HT and did not find them underpowered. I could easily hit 75-80Db (measure it with your SPL meter) with them.
I've now moved onto using 250.2 and V175 as I've found I enjoy the newer sound more. Also the extra power of the 250 doesn't go amiss :-)
Roy.
I've previously used 3 x NAP140's to run my HT and did not find them underpowered. I could easily hit 75-80Db (measure it with your SPL meter) with them.
I've now moved onto using 250.2 and V175 as I've found I enjoy the newer sound more. Also the extra power of the 250 doesn't go amiss :-)
Roy.
Posted on: 04 January 2008 by james n
It might be worth keeping the n-vi powered on. Its made my setup a whole lot easier to control due to the power on delay of the n-Vi.
James
James
Posted on: 04 January 2008 by Mark Gilbert
A little more information will be helpful. From your statement I assume that you're using the same speakers with the 140 whether for music or for movies. Please mention what speakers you're using. Different speakers have different performance requirements from the amplifiers.
Could you elaborate on what gives you the feeling that the 140 is underpowered? The 140 has a long history of performing very well with many speakers. I can't tell from this whether your 140 is having trouble or perhaps the speaker is having difficulty with the low frequencies prominent in the movies you watch.
I assume that your setup process went well. I know that my movies do not come to the preamp at the same level as the CD player for example. This means that I just need to turn up the volume when watching movies and turn it down when listening to CD. Could this be something you're noticing?
Please don't get caught up in the wattage ratings of amplifiers. They mean extremely little. Even the older and smaller Nait models in the Naim line have enough power to drive lots of speakers. I've heard Naits that were much better sounding than much more expensive gear that had higher wattage ratings and the Nait was plenty loud (unless you're trying to fill a stadium).
I may not be here long enough to see your response today but others will be able to follow up as well. Good luck.
Mark
Could you elaborate on what gives you the feeling that the 140 is underpowered? The 140 has a long history of performing very well with many speakers. I can't tell from this whether your 140 is having trouble or perhaps the speaker is having difficulty with the low frequencies prominent in the movies you watch.
I assume that your setup process went well. I know that my movies do not come to the preamp at the same level as the CD player for example. This means that I just need to turn up the volume when watching movies and turn it down when listening to CD. Could this be something you're noticing?
Please don't get caught up in the wattage ratings of amplifiers. They mean extremely little. Even the older and smaller Nait models in the Naim line have enough power to drive lots of speakers. I've heard Naits that were much better sounding than much more expensive gear that had higher wattage ratings and the Nait was plenty loud (unless you're trying to fill a stadium).
I may not be here long enough to see your response today but others will be able to follow up as well. Good luck.
Mark
Posted on: 07 January 2008 by cimman
ok, here is my setup:
Amp: NAP 140 - connected to my front speakers
Pre amp - NAC 112 - connected to my AVR, Marantz SR4002, via the 112's AV source input
AV Receiver: Marantz SR4002, rated 70 watts per channel.
Front Speakers: Energy Veritas 2.2 (3 way bookshelf speakers), rated 89db sensitivity, connected to the NAP 140.
Center Speaker: Energy Veritas 2.0C, connected to the Marantz AVR center channel output
Surround Speakers: none
Sub woofer: none
in my connection above, the volume level on the 112 does not affect the volume of the AVR.
Based on my speaker's ratings, it is not a difficult to drive speaker. At 0db on my Marantz AVR, I felt the sound was quite comfortable. In my friend's setup, at 0db, the sound was unbearably loud.
It is from this observation, that I draw my conclusion that the NAP 140 is not powerful enough for movies.
Note: I've raised the 112's AV input signal to the max and it is configured as AV mode.
Amp: NAP 140 - connected to my front speakers
Pre amp - NAC 112 - connected to my AVR, Marantz SR4002, via the 112's AV source input
AV Receiver: Marantz SR4002, rated 70 watts per channel.
Front Speakers: Energy Veritas 2.2 (3 way bookshelf speakers), rated 89db sensitivity, connected to the NAP 140.
Center Speaker: Energy Veritas 2.0C, connected to the Marantz AVR center channel output
Surround Speakers: none
Sub woofer: none
in my connection above, the volume level on the 112 does not affect the volume of the AVR.
Based on my speaker's ratings, it is not a difficult to drive speaker. At 0db on my Marantz AVR, I felt the sound was quite comfortable. In my friend's setup, at 0db, the sound was unbearably loud.
It is from this observation, that I draw my conclusion that the NAP 140 is not powerful enough for movies.
Note: I've raised the 112's AV input signal to the max and it is configured as AV mode.
Posted on: 11 January 2008 by cimman
any comments on how to improve my setup ?
is there enough power in the 140 in my setup ? down the road, I'll be getting a subwoofer, so the 80 Hz signal will be routed to the sub and reduces the load on the front speakers and thus the 140.
Or maybe I should get another 140 and do a bi amp solution, as my speakers has bi amp speaker terminals. However, I hear that bi amp does not always leads to a better solution. Some says it loses the imaging, maybe it's due to the response delay of the speaker signal between 2 amps, ie. the signals reaching the low freq terminals is slightly out of synch with the signals reaching the mid/high freq terminals. There are also a lot of people who claims audio nirvana with bi amp solutions, so I don't know...
is there enough power in the 140 in my setup ? down the road, I'll be getting a subwoofer, so the 80 Hz signal will be routed to the sub and reduces the load on the front speakers and thus the 140.
Or maybe I should get another 140 and do a bi amp solution, as my speakers has bi amp speaker terminals. However, I hear that bi amp does not always leads to a better solution. Some says it loses the imaging, maybe it's due to the response delay of the speaker signal between 2 amps, ie. the signals reaching the low freq terminals is slightly out of synch with the signals reaching the mid/high freq terminals. There are also a lot of people who claims audio nirvana with bi amp solutions, so I don't know...
Posted on: 12 January 2008 by Roy Donaldson
quote:Originally posted by cimman:
ok, here is my setup:
Amp: NAP 140 - connected to my front speakers
Pre amp - NAC 112 - connected to my AVR, Marantz SR4002, via the 112's AV source input
AV Receiver: Marantz SR4002, rated 70 watts per channel.
Front Speakers: Energy Veritas 2.2 (3 way bookshelf speakers), rated 89db sensitivity, connected to the NAP 140.
Center Speaker: Energy Veritas 2.0C, connected to the Marantz AVR center channel output
Surround Speakers: none
Sub woofer: none
in my connection above, the volume level on the 112 does not affect the volume of the AVR.
Based on my speaker's ratings, it is not a difficult to drive speaker. At 0db on my Marantz AVR, I felt the sound was quite comfortable. In my friend's setup, at 0db, the sound was unbearably loud.
It is from this observation, that I draw my conclusion that the NAP 140 is not powerful enough for movies.
Note: I've raised the 112's AV input signal to the max and it is configured as AV mode.
I'm assuming here, that your friend has the same Marantz amplifier as you and the same speakers, because that is the only way you can compare the difference of the power amp in between.
Is it that at 0db on the Marantz that your friends system is louder, or that when you turn your own one up, it doesn't go loud enough for you ?
Roy.
Posted on: 12 January 2008 by tonym
If I were you, the first thing I'd do is to try a decent active subwoofer in your system.
Not only will you get a far better "movie" effect but it'll also relieve your main speakers from the need to reproduce the low frequencies. I assume you must have the latter set as "Large" in your Marantz speaker set up?
Not only will you get a far better "movie" effect but it'll also relieve your main speakers from the need to reproduce the low frequencies. I assume you must have the latter set as "Large" in your Marantz speaker set up?
Posted on: 14 January 2008 by Adrian F.
cimman:
- Can you switch the AV input of the NAP112 into "unity gain" mode? If yes, have you done that?
- Do you use NACA5 cable for the speakers on the NAP140?
Check your manuals, or download them from the naim website.
Probably the preamp outputs are not "loud" enough to drive the NAP to it's max? Check for a FirmWare update for your Marantz.
happy listening
Adrian
- Can you switch the AV input of the NAP112 into "unity gain" mode? If yes, have you done that?
- Do you use NACA5 cable for the speakers on the NAP140?
Check your manuals, or download them from the naim website.
Probably the preamp outputs are not "loud" enough to drive the NAP to it's max? Check for a FirmWare update for your Marantz.
happy listening
Adrian
Posted on: 19 January 2008 by cimman
thanks all for your suggestions.
I'm afraid my friend was not using the Marantz, he had another receiver, but at 0db, any receiver should be pretty loud.
I did try putting a subwoofer, something from the bedroom that I already had and set the front speakers to small, it does seem that my speakers are louder now. hmm...... does that mean that the NAP140 can't drive my speakers as "large" ? from the forums, it seems that the best way to integrate sub and front speakers is to set the fronts to large and the low frequencies are better integrated. More experienced folks here can comment on this ie. front=large + sub or front=small + sub. I have a full range bookshelf speaker (3 way). It's a pretty big bookshelf (Energy Veritas 2.1)
My NAC 112 has been set to unity gain mode for the AV input.
I'm afraid my friend was not using the Marantz, he had another receiver, but at 0db, any receiver should be pretty loud.
I did try putting a subwoofer, something from the bedroom that I already had and set the front speakers to small, it does seem that my speakers are louder now. hmm...... does that mean that the NAP140 can't drive my speakers as "large" ? from the forums, it seems that the best way to integrate sub and front speakers is to set the fronts to large and the low frequencies are better integrated. More experienced folks here can comment on this ie. front=large + sub or front=small + sub. I have a full range bookshelf speaker (3 way). It's a pretty big bookshelf (Energy Veritas 2.1)
My NAC 112 has been set to unity gain mode for the AV input.
Posted on: 20 January 2008 by Beer Monster
I think it the problem is with the Marantz and the line level output to the NAC. I have a Marantaz 4300 routed via Nac102/Nap140 into B&W603 as fronts and have set the volume control on the nac at 10pm and have no issues driving the B&Ws loud (though the marantz has to be in range -10bd to 0db to really loud!!).