Classical on a NAIM

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:


I tend to feel that this old cliche, often quoted, that classical music is best heard on kit which is slow, bloated, with rounded off transients, says a lot about the misconceptions about classical music...I personally don`t know any genuine classical fans that actually like that sort of sound (or for that matter, fans of any other style of music)

laurie S

---

Well put. I listen almost exclusively to classical music and I love the way Naim gear sounds. I must say that I demand a "fast" sound. What would a "slow" piano or violin sound like? I cannot even imagine. Other gear can also sound good with classical music, but Naim sounds pretty darned good playing it, too.

Henry Fogel, prs of the Chicago Symphony and a true c.m. fan, uses Mark Levinson stuff, or did when it was lat mentioned in the local newspaper. I think some people just value different aspects of reproduced sound..and since none of it is perfect, that has to be OK.

Phil

A reflection that came up in my mind when I read about Jönköping's concert house on the web (http://www.programbolaget.se/). I quote (and translate from Swedish):

"The acustics are wonderful. Every nuance in the music gets through."

Isn't "Every nuance in the music gets through" more or less what Naim/PRaT is about? As opposed to the round earth world where soundstaging (and stuff like that) are considered important. There is no mention of round earth atributes when describing the concert house on this web site (or anywhere else that I know of).

Strange then that soundstaging (and bla. bla.) suddenly appears out of thin air when music is reproduced on a HiFi in the home!

On monday I plan to go to a concert here with classical music, I will report back on my findings.

JohanR

Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:

quote:

---

I tend to feel that this old cliche, often quoted, that classical music is best heard on kit which is slow, bloated, with rounded off transients, says a lot about the misconceptions about classical music...I personally don`t know any genuine classical fans that actually like that sort of sound (or for that matter, fans of any other style of music)

laurie S

---

The 4th best selling classical title on Amazon.com is "The Most Relaxing Classical Album in the World...Ever!". This is the classical music some prefer.

In fact, the dynamics of a lot of classical music (eg, the faster movements of a Beethoven or Mahler symphony) requires getting the timing right, just as much as with rock or soul.

I think one of the strengths of Naim gear is that is can maintain this timing without making natural instruments sound overly grainy and artificial sounding.

Steven

to quote Herman's <i>requote</i>
"You let your equipment choose the kind of music you listen to? Wow!

That's a whole new way of looking at the "it's all about the music" mantra."

Whilst it's not entirely true in my case, I have got into come cracking music just because it initially sounded good on my system!

Similarly I got into jazz when, after a long day at college I would spend 4 till 11 in the evening at the station pub where a jazz band would play in the evening.

I would never stop listening to a kind of music based on my system though.

Andrew

diamonds - she'll pretty much have to...

Interesting responses, all.

I believe that the sound many audiophiles feel is suited for classical is a rolled off kind of mid-bass-humpy, imagistic one.

Very relaxing, but not involving. I have found my Naim gear more involving than my old round earth stuff for classical and I think a lot of it has to do with the solidity the sound has.

Voices on opera cds are dense and weighty. I feel as if I am hearing all the resonance and sonority they have. My former round-earth stuff was, by comparison, airy and wispy. There was no kick to the mid-bass region and little impact.

It left me feeling limp. In every sense.

Madrid:

a lot of the "compilation" classical music sold (and bought) is of the "easy listening" type for "relaxing" to.....the intention ofvthe producers is to produce a kind of "aural wallpaper"... the sort of background music to have dinner parties with, that will not act as a distraction when people are engaged in conversation. In these circumstances, the music is best played on equipment that is relatively uninvolving. This is fine, but I would guess that those reading/contributing to this forum own hi-fi equipment for diffeent reasons. Speaking for myself, when I play music I want it to go some way towards reproducing the sort of captivating excitement I would get were I listening to the real performance. as such, the qualities of the system should be exactly the opposite.....it should make the listener lose interest in all other activities. When I listen to a Bach solo piano piece I am on the edge of my seat with the genius, passion and excitement of the music. If I can read etc whilst the music is playing, then for me the system is not performing as I want it (if I want the easy listening experience I turn on my portable radio)

Sadly it is a sad fact that in many record stores now, classical music is marketed as compilations of a single "flavour"...for me these are equivalent to a collection of short stories and do not compare with the coherence and gravitas of a complete work. I guess (and here I go showing my age) that we live in times of decreasing attention spans, and "sound bytes". This is why I find it difficult to watch much of what is on TV where the directors seem determined not to hold a camera position for more than 5 seconds
(carp over)

best wishes
Laurie S

Laurie:

I concur with you. I think one can also extend your analysis to other genres of music. Some prefer "lite" jazz while others prefer the driving but more harsh and involving sound of, say, John Coltrane.

Steven

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richie T:
What I would say, is that it is easier for any system (Naim or other brand)to sound better on non-acoustic music (eg: not classical or jazz) than with classical. Richie T

---

Funny Ritchie how people can see things differently.

I don't play musical instruments, but have been involved in audio for more then 20 years and I am a regular concert attendee. I find - but of course it's very personal - that playing acoustic instruments is where Naim really kicks the a** off most of the competition. (Including references such as Audio Research, CJ, Krells, etc.)

Everything with strings in particular - violins, guitars, and even harpischords. Naim makes you hear the initial attack and the following resonances more clearly, and overall everything just sounds right.

And yes, right may mean "shrill" at times, depending on the violinist's technique (I assume). But of course Jun could tell you more anout this.

(My listening is about 50% classical, 30% jazz, 20$ others)

quote:

---

Originally posted by ClaudeP:
(My listening is about 50% classical, 30% jazz, 20$ others)

---

Sounds good. So why don't you ever post in the Music Room?

Herman

I am continually astonished by how much better classical music sounds on my Well Tempered record player than it does on any CD player made by anyone.

Alex

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex S.:
I am continually astonished by how much better classical music sounds on my Well Tempered record player than it does on any CD player made by anyone.

Alex

---

I'm not astonished at all at how much better any vinyl recording sounds compared to just about any CDP on any reasonable TT combo from a rega 2 up. I think vinyl is just better.

Yours in Music

Syd

Syd is right. The CD format is fundamentally flawed, However I think we are seeing something like the VHS/Betamax situation. At the time Betamax was acknowledged as as the better medium. However I recently compared a £200 VHS to atop of the range Betamax. Even allowing for wear and tear, the VHS won. This is simply because Betamax development stopped years ago,...who knows how good it could have become. It is the same with CD/LP.....Classical recordings on vinyl effectively dried up in the 80s.....so although CDs use technology that is inferior (digitising is effectively a form of compression)..modern classical recordings are generally getting better..the engineers are learning! As such the gap is much narrower, but it is no longer possible to do a true side-by-side comparison. So if you want to listen to new recordings, you are really stuck with CD and regrettably we have to make the best of it. It reminds me of compact cassette which was originally designed for dictating machines. Ultimately,it was possible to squeeze quite amasing performance from the medium (at a cost)....if only the format had specified wider tape or higher tape speed at the outset....Just like CD. It is infuriating that the designers of the CD standard did not go the extra mile at the time and specify better resolution than 16 bit/44kHz at the outset. (I believe that they easily could have done)....They opted for what was mistakenly thought "good enough"....we might all be listening to CDS3 sound quality for a few hundred quid today! I fear that the (mass)market forces which made it easy for CD to "replace" vinyl will never be there for the newer high resolution formats(SACD/DVDA).
Still, whenever I want reminding how good sound reproduction can be, I spin a vinyl disc. As you say Syd, I doubt if ANY of the digital formats will ever surpass it

Laurie S

Laurie,

Most of my older, completely analogue vinyl discs are the best. There is a huge amount of s/h classical vinyl available, for most of it you don't even need a record cleaner.

CD was sold as the cure-all format for mass market and audiophiles alike. Of course its not, but Naim, Densen and the like have done a good job at maximising its potential. The problem is that a good CD player costs far more than the relatively modest TTs that embarrass the format.

Classical reviewers rave about SACD. I've not heard so can't comment but either the medium has genuine promise or reviewers are just desparate to write something positive about something new. I know its unlikely, but I'm hoping DVDV & A become the mass market standard whilst SACD is developed sufficiently to satisfy the few who really care what recorded music sounds like.

Since 'hi-end' companies such as Naim are already in a niche market, if SACD does become the 'audiophile' option, they should have the confidence to develop suitable players, although I dread to think of the cost.

If that doesn't happen I think Naim should make a turntable. IMO the LP12's reputation today is far in excess of its performance relative to various modern alternatives. The trouble is the smaller companies making TTs don't have the clout to shift the LP12 off its perch. If Naim launched a good TT for about 4K skips would be piled high with LP12s overnight. Sadly, this won't happen, I think that when the bits run out Naim won't even make a tonearm.

Alex

Alex, the bits did run out. We were able to get some more!
The problem comes when our suppliers refuse uneconomical batch sizes.

Hi Paul, Great News - LP12s need Aros like Naim amps need NACA5!

quote:

---

Originally posted by herm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ClaudeP:
Sounds good. So why don't you ever post in the Music Room?
Herman

---

Good remark - I think I'll give it a try.