My New Replay Set.
Posted by: u5227470736789439 on 04 August 2009
I realise that it is unconventional to post about one's replay in the Music Room, but as you may note what I am using is so distilled that it barely counts as a replay set at all, but merely a music box.
I have even made arrangements to part with my Lavry DA10, so all that is left is a computer with Windows XP [service pack three] running iTunes feeding a nice pair of Sennheiser HD 415 headphones straight off the sound-card.
So how is it possible that this can be a satisfactory method of playing music. I do not know, but in gradually ripping about an eighth or tenth of my CDs, I have realised that they have never yielded so much music as in this arrangement, whatever set I was running. It may not be the ultimate in computer audio, but it is a musical upgrade in every sense from any conventional CD player running through loudspeakers, that I have ever been able to afford.
If I spent loads more on it, then no doubt it could be even finer, but it does not need to be.
I still have the old Naim set and Royds, but can no longer see a reason to set them up again. I am curiously relaxed about the thought that I could not possibly vex anyone with my music using this arrangement!
Some pictures:
I had just listened to the Italian Symphony of Mendelsohnn, and was also copying some Beethoven to HD, when I took this.
My CRT melted down, so this new LG 18 inch model does very nicely for good visibility of the iTunes, as well as DVDs. I do not have a Television.
Copying some Beethoven to PC HD. I cannot think that I require [or would find other than bothersome] any further assistance than a list and search engine to optimise my listening experience in the sense of selecting the very music to listen to!
Shortly I shall use a NAS with two SATA Drives in RAID configuration to increase the capacity of the system to encompass my remaining 400 or so CDs.
I hope to also get the files onto a completely portable HD so as to be useful when travelling.
ATB from George
I have even made arrangements to part with my Lavry DA10, so all that is left is a computer with Windows XP [service pack three] running iTunes feeding a nice pair of Sennheiser HD 415 headphones straight off the sound-card.
So how is it possible that this can be a satisfactory method of playing music. I do not know, but in gradually ripping about an eighth or tenth of my CDs, I have realised that they have never yielded so much music as in this arrangement, whatever set I was running. It may not be the ultimate in computer audio, but it is a musical upgrade in every sense from any conventional CD player running through loudspeakers, that I have ever been able to afford.
If I spent loads more on it, then no doubt it could be even finer, but it does not need to be.
I still have the old Naim set and Royds, but can no longer see a reason to set them up again. I am curiously relaxed about the thought that I could not possibly vex anyone with my music using this arrangement!
Some pictures:
I had just listened to the Italian Symphony of Mendelsohnn, and was also copying some Beethoven to HD, when I took this.
My CRT melted down, so this new LG 18 inch model does very nicely for good visibility of the iTunes, as well as DVDs. I do not have a Television.
Copying some Beethoven to PC HD. I cannot think that I require [or would find other than bothersome] any further assistance than a list and search engine to optimise my listening experience in the sense of selecting the very music to listen to!
Shortly I shall use a NAS with two SATA Drives in RAID configuration to increase the capacity of the system to encompass my remaining 400 or so CDs.
I hope to also get the files onto a completely portable HD so as to be useful when travelling.
ATB from George
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Richard Dane
George you, like all other members of this forum, are welcome to post in whichever room you choose, whether you own any Naim equipment or not.
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
Dear Richard,
You are too kind. I might once have been some use to your company in the old days! But now I am one of Parry's undiserving poor, so your allowing me to post at least about music [and hopefully lunacy] is very kind. Thank you.
One day we may meet which would probably be nicer for me than you!
ATB from George
You are too kind. I might once have been some use to your company in the old days! But now I am one of Parry's undiserving poor, so your allowing me to post at least about music [and hopefully lunacy] is very kind. Thank you.
One day we may meet which would probably be nicer for me than you!
ATB from George
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by Christopher_M
George,
First, I know that a very high standard of replay can be had via headphones and I have a pair myself for when the neighbours are in bed. But I wouldn't want to use them all the time, even though I live alone. People come round. And after all, music is a social activity. I reckon there will come a time when you want music in the house again, as opposed to music in your ears.
Secondly, "In the Hifi Room, there is next to no acceptance that the quality can be fine this side of spending mega-bucks, and accepting a quality of intermediate level is virtually a heresy nowadays ..." The 'modest-bucks deniers' haven't heard Massimo's system, Nigel's or mine. Or many others.
Best, Chris
First, I know that a very high standard of replay can be had via headphones and I have a pair myself for when the neighbours are in bed. But I wouldn't want to use them all the time, even though I live alone. People come round. And after all, music is a social activity. I reckon there will come a time when you want music in the house again, as opposed to music in your ears.
Secondly, "In the Hifi Room, there is next to no acceptance that the quality can be fine this side of spending mega-bucks, and accepting a quality of intermediate level is virtually a heresy nowadays ..." The 'modest-bucks deniers' haven't heard Massimo's system, Nigel's or mine. Or many others.
Best, Chris
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
quote:People come round.
True, but rarely at least in the sense that music might be enjoyed!
I will keep the old amps and speakers in the event of seriously musial people turning up!
Time to turn in actually, so Dobranoc,
ATB from George
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by DaveBk
George,
Thanks for this, it's refreshing to hear another perspective on enjoying music without spending mega-bucks. We've never really entered into much dialogue on the forum, but I have to say you seem to be one of the very few genuinely good men in this mad old world. Keep posting wherever you see fit!
Dave
Thanks for this, it's refreshing to hear another perspective on enjoying music without spending mega-bucks. We've never really entered into much dialogue on the forum, but I have to say you seem to be one of the very few genuinely good men in this mad old world. Keep posting wherever you see fit!
Dave
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by Whizzkid:
So my views are not valid in context to this new found freedom on George's part?
Dean...
Nope.
Posted on: 05 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
Patrick,
You have to come to UK, and I will connect up the amps and you can hear it for yourself.
Be prepared to be converted to Bach and Haydn in the process though!
ATB from George
You have to come to UK, and I will connect up the amps and you can hear it for yourself.
Be prepared to be converted to Bach and Haydn in the process though!
ATB from George
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Mike,
You can post in the Music Room even if you don't have a Naim set!
EW gave me the marvelous Beethoven Quartet recordings [for American Columbia] of the Budapest Quartet, so believe me, he is a very fine gentleman - Naim set or not!
ATB from George
It wasn't a criticism, just curiousity.
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
Patrick,
You have to come to UK, and I will connect up the amps and you can hear it for yourself.
Be prepared to be converted to Bach and Haydn in the process though!
ATB from George
George... That would be really fun... Ive already been converted though. I studied bass, and have played my fair share of Simandl. Haydn isn't my main man, but I do cherish Bach. When working on my right hand technique (for electric bass) I took a few years of classical guitar to hone my chops. I played a ton of Bach Bourees, Suites and Preludes. For the old guys he is one of my favorites.
But when it comes to "serious" music, I must admit I prefer the likes of Varese, Messiaen, anything Pierre Boulez writes or conducts, etc...
Would love to listen to music with you though. Maybe even some dueling basses would be in order!
-Patrick
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by Christopher_M
quote:Would love to listen to music with you though.
Looks like the 72/ HC/140 with Royds could come in handy sooner than we thought!
Best, Chris
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by pcstockton
Christopher....
No no.... We are going to do the double headphone method a la Rob Lowe and Demi Moore in "About Last Night" (horrible movie).
It gets George laid every time!
No no.... We are going to do the double headphone method a la Rob Lowe and Demi Moore in "About Last Night" (horrible movie).
It gets George laid every time!
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by ryan_d
George,
I think me and you have similar views on how ht forum has been developing of late, and although we may have differing choices of genres of music, the feelings towards it are pretty close also.
Although I disagree with some of what you have said (and I am making no pretensions to being right either) in the past, I hope you continue to enjoy what you use to listen to your music on as it is quite clearly a tenet that is shamefully forgotten in these here parts at times. It is and should always be about the music, and nothing else.
All the very best for the future whether you are posting here or not (or me posting here or not, for that matter.)
Ryan
I think me and you have similar views on how ht forum has been developing of late, and although we may have differing choices of genres of music, the feelings towards it are pretty close also.
Although I disagree with some of what you have said (and I am making no pretensions to being right either) in the past, I hope you continue to enjoy what you use to listen to your music on as it is quite clearly a tenet that is shamefully forgotten in these here parts at times. It is and should always be about the music, and nothing else.
All the very best for the future whether you are posting here or not (or me posting here or not, for that matter.)
Ryan
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
Dear Patrick,
If you ever come to ythe UK, then you definitely must come to see me.
We can talk about double bass study books!
My first teacher used Eduard Nanie [French publication pre 1914], my second used Simandl [which you know about]. and my third teacher who was principle bass in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra used Bille [said Beelay, and an Italian publication, like Simandl, still in print], so I know my way round a few of the excercise books!
____________
Dear All,
I know that not everyone quite sees my reasoning, but I take it that so long as the music is enjoyable then optimisation of the technical aspect of replay does not need to go further. Perhaps I am the first case that is totally immune to upgraditis nervosa!
Anyway, thanks to all of you, who have read and replied to this.
I think the 72 [etc] combo is likely to stay round for a while as there is nothing finer I could get for what it might be sold for, but I am really enjoying the headphones, for the freedom they give concerning one's neighbours, and the fifthy din that music - not one's own choice - can be!
If that were all there was to it then it might be thought that somehow this was a sort of severe compromise, but I am finding a very direct connection to the music though the phones that takes me back to my very young days of listening to music on headphones while the senior boys were doing prep in the same room.
It was a huge dispensation to be allowed to do that, and of course I was very grateful. The litening was duly very deep and concentrated. That is how I like to listen, and it is made very much less difficult to maintain concentration via headphones.
I have learned the technique again.
ATB from George
If you ever come to ythe UK, then you definitely must come to see me.
We can talk about double bass study books!
My first teacher used Eduard Nanie [French publication pre 1914], my second used Simandl [which you know about]. and my third teacher who was principle bass in the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra used Bille [said Beelay, and an Italian publication, like Simandl, still in print], so I know my way round a few of the excercise books!
____________
Dear All,
I know that not everyone quite sees my reasoning, but I take it that so long as the music is enjoyable then optimisation of the technical aspect of replay does not need to go further. Perhaps I am the first case that is totally immune to upgraditis nervosa!
Anyway, thanks to all of you, who have read and replied to this.
I think the 72 [etc] combo is likely to stay round for a while as there is nothing finer I could get for what it might be sold for, but I am really enjoying the headphones, for the freedom they give concerning one's neighbours, and the fifthy din that music - not one's own choice - can be!
If that were all there was to it then it might be thought that somehow this was a sort of severe compromise, but I am finding a very direct connection to the music though the phones that takes me back to my very young days of listening to music on headphones while the senior boys were doing prep in the same room.
It was a huge dispensation to be allowed to do that, and of course I was very grateful. The litening was duly very deep and concentrated. That is how I like to listen, and it is made very much less difficult to maintain concentration via headphones.
I have learned the technique again.
ATB from George
Posted on: 06 August 2009 by CharlieP
George,
ATB to you. I have always enjoyed your posts, and your heartfelt love for music. Your recent post reminds me that I have always been thrilled by my music replay, even when my system was far more humble than now. Being realistic, we must all perform a certain "suspension of disbelief" to imagine live music from the mere simulacrum of what any "replay system" produces. Yet, the intentions of the composer and musician(s) can be somehow conveyed in spite of the various limitations in playback.
So, while many of us are often amused or even distracted by the hobby of assembling and tweaking a music playback system, it is really the joy of listening to music that matters in the end. Few have articulated this more eloquently than you, George.
Honoring you,
Charlie
ATB to you. I have always enjoyed your posts, and your heartfelt love for music. Your recent post reminds me that I have always been thrilled by my music replay, even when my system was far more humble than now. Being realistic, we must all perform a certain "suspension of disbelief" to imagine live music from the mere simulacrum of what any "replay system" produces. Yet, the intentions of the composer and musician(s) can be somehow conveyed in spite of the various limitations in playback.
So, while many of us are often amused or even distracted by the hobby of assembling and tweaking a music playback system, it is really the joy of listening to music that matters in the end. Few have articulated this more eloquently than you, George.
Honoring you,
Charlie
Posted on: 09 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
Establishing a half TB capacity on the PC to store - in mirror - the iTunes library.
It works absolutely beautifully, and though the PC is not actually silent in running there is no detectable Hard Drive sound from the two mirrored drives, and the sound is exactly as it was when the source was on the main drive C. The photo is not of me, who is a muppet when out of his depth with computers!
With headphones there is absolutely no interference with the music from the computer fans, though I realise some people find back ground noises more distracting than others!
This is superb, and all I have to do now is try to load 10 CDs a day for the next five weeks or so!
So pleased to finally have arrived at a viable replay solution at least in my own terms!
ATB fromn George
It works absolutely beautifully, and though the PC is not actually silent in running there is no detectable Hard Drive sound from the two mirrored drives, and the sound is exactly as it was when the source was on the main drive C. The photo is not of me, who is a muppet when out of his depth with computers!
With headphones there is absolutely no interference with the music from the computer fans, though I realise some people find back ground noises more distracting than others!
This is superb, and all I have to do now is try to load 10 CDs a day for the next five weeks or so!
So pleased to finally have arrived at a viable replay solution at least in my own terms!
ATB fromn George
Posted on: 10 August 2009 by james n
George - as you have the old Naim set still, how about a headline. Power it from the Hicap and use the output of the soundcard. You've then got some decent drive for the phones - or use the 72 as a headphone amp ?
James
James
Posted on: 10 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
I know the Music Fidelity may not be Naim, but the output of the computer to headphones is clearly rather fine.
That juxtaposition is because we tried two MF headphone amplifiers on the PC output, using my old faithful Sennheiser HD 415 phones and some Grado SR [?] 60s. Very fine interconnects were used [don't know the make] but there is a directness - an effortless musically detailed way - that works so well directly to the Senns. I did not get the Grados. Very clear, and yet somehow less detailed than the Senns, but also seemingly more forward in presentation than I would want.
We also played with a feed to the Lavry from a CD player, which none of them were preferable to what the most direct route to the Senns got for me at least.
Of course I would expect that the Lavry fed with a digital out from the PC would behave as it did on a Mac, with probably even finer results, but there is no reason for me to caste about for something better than this. There is no obvious way to get digital out of the existing quite old but clearly very nice sound card.
The basic PC simply driving the headphones is compettitive with conventional arrangements costing very much more, and I don't have much more to spend on it, so after two and a half years of casting about [since selling my gifted CDS2/XPS - a very sad decision that kept me housed] I have found something that will do for a long time - and is fully financed!
If I ever feel sociable and fancy sharing my music I can still connect the PC to the 72 /Hi/140 combo via the excellent Chrod cable I had specially made for the purpose in 2000. I ought to do it for myself just once, but it seems like a lot of effort and would dominate the room in a way that the computer does not, and will, even less when I make a nice support for it to sit in.
I don't suppose I shall rush to sell the old Naim pieces as the 140 was newly serviced two years ago, and would never realise its value, which the Hicap is not strictly mine to sell really, even if its previous owner would not want it back.
The Royds would take some replacing as they are almost mint, and so finding another pair as tidy might take some doing.
So they can live carefully out of sight in the bottom of my wardrobe for another day, perhaps! The value is quite low so depreciation has probably about stopped ...
ATB from George
That juxtaposition is because we tried two MF headphone amplifiers on the PC output, using my old faithful Sennheiser HD 415 phones and some Grado SR [?] 60s. Very fine interconnects were used [don't know the make] but there is a directness - an effortless musically detailed way - that works so well directly to the Senns. I did not get the Grados. Very clear, and yet somehow less detailed than the Senns, but also seemingly more forward in presentation than I would want.
We also played with a feed to the Lavry from a CD player, which none of them were preferable to what the most direct route to the Senns got for me at least.
Of course I would expect that the Lavry fed with a digital out from the PC would behave as it did on a Mac, with probably even finer results, but there is no reason for me to caste about for something better than this. There is no obvious way to get digital out of the existing quite old but clearly very nice sound card.
The basic PC simply driving the headphones is compettitive with conventional arrangements costing very much more, and I don't have much more to spend on it, so after two and a half years of casting about [since selling my gifted CDS2/XPS - a very sad decision that kept me housed] I have found something that will do for a long time - and is fully financed!
If I ever feel sociable and fancy sharing my music I can still connect the PC to the 72 /Hi/140 combo via the excellent Chrod cable I had specially made for the purpose in 2000. I ought to do it for myself just once, but it seems like a lot of effort and would dominate the room in a way that the computer does not, and will, even less when I make a nice support for it to sit in.
I don't suppose I shall rush to sell the old Naim pieces as the 140 was newly serviced two years ago, and would never realise its value, which the Hicap is not strictly mine to sell really, even if its previous owner would not want it back.
The Royds would take some replacing as they are almost mint, and so finding another pair as tidy might take some doing.
So they can live carefully out of sight in the bottom of my wardrobe for another day, perhaps! The value is quite low so depreciation has probably about stopped ...
ATB from George
Posted on: 10 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
My friend tells me the Grados are SR 80s, and the interconnects, IXOS 1002s.
Hope that helps!
I reckon I better buy some more Senn HD 415s before the model goes!
ATB from George
Hope that helps!
I reckon I better buy some more Senn HD 415s before the model goes!
ATB from George
Posted on: 10 August 2009 by Max Steel
I wish you all the best with your system George!
I hope you don't mind me saying your picture made me smile. I often feel as if I'm on my knees with my computer!
I hope you don't mind me saying your picture made me smile. I often feel as if I'm on my knees with my computer!
Posted on: 10 August 2009 by u5227470736789439
Dear Max,
I am rarely honoured with a first post as a reply on one of my threads! Thanks for the post.
Have great time learning things from the Forum, and thanks for your kind thought!
Fortunately it was not me on my knees! I am no operator of computers, and so tend to the simple with them.
This is my kind of simple machine, taken during a break from setting the computer system up:
Myself on my Carlton which is a fair antique! Antique, but nice.
ATB from George
I am rarely honoured with a first post as a reply on one of my threads! Thanks for the post.
Have great time learning things from the Forum, and thanks for your kind thought!
Fortunately it was not me on my knees! I am no operator of computers, and so tend to the simple with them.
This is my kind of simple machine, taken during a break from setting the computer system up:
Myself on my Carlton which is a fair antique! Antique, but nice.
ATB from George
Posted on: 10 August 2009 by Earwicker
quote:Originally posted by GFFJ:
I reckon I better buy some more Senn HD 415s before the model goes!
They certainly seem to represent remarkable value, I might grab a set meself!
Posted on: 11 August 2009 by Max Steel
You are very kind George, but the honour is all mine!
I also enjoy cycling, & yours is a far better bicycle than my old bone-rattler.
I hope you won't mind me asking you a general question about the Naim forum?
I noticed there are some posts that to me read as abusive.
I have seen them in 'Padded Cell' but also elsewhere.
Are these considered acceptable, or have I misunderstood a level of humour?
I have only been using computers & the internet for a few months,
& this is my first forum so I apologise in advance if I have asked a stupid 'newbie' question!
ATB - Max
I also enjoy cycling, & yours is a far better bicycle than my old bone-rattler.
I hope you won't mind me asking you a general question about the Naim forum?
I noticed there are some posts that to me read as abusive.
I have seen them in 'Padded Cell' but also elsewhere.
Are these considered acceptable, or have I misunderstood a level of humour?
I have only been using computers & the internet for a few months,
& this is my first forum so I apologise in advance if I have asked a stupid 'newbie' question!
ATB - Max
Posted on: 11 August 2009 by fixedwheel
Hi Max
Sometimes posts can read differently than intended. I often edit a post immediately when I proof read it, sometimes it's spelling, sometimes grammar, sometimes I'm concerned that it may not read clearly to a reader whose native tongue is not English.
I struggle enough with the language myself, and speak no other!
Some people delight in trying to push the boundaries of what is acceptable, and give the moderators undue work.
As in life, there are people who you would not want to spend time with.
On balance though, the vast majority are really friendly, but as people have got to know each other on and off the forum there are quite a few "in" jokes and jibes, and friendly banter between willing participants! The great thing about friends is knowing which buttons to press.
Hang around here for a bit, I joined in March, and already have met a couple of the regulars in person and had conversations with quite a few more. Great people.
As your comment was directed at George, I think it is only fair to embarrass him by saying that, having met him, he is one of the people that are a pleasure and privilege to call a friend.
And finally, a big welcome Max!
Cheers
John
Sometimes posts can read differently than intended. I often edit a post immediately when I proof read it, sometimes it's spelling, sometimes grammar, sometimes I'm concerned that it may not read clearly to a reader whose native tongue is not English.
I struggle enough with the language myself, and speak no other!
Some people delight in trying to push the boundaries of what is acceptable, and give the moderators undue work.
As in life, there are people who you would not want to spend time with.
On balance though, the vast majority are really friendly, but as people have got to know each other on and off the forum there are quite a few "in" jokes and jibes, and friendly banter between willing participants! The great thing about friends is knowing which buttons to press.
Hang around here for a bit, I joined in March, and already have met a couple of the regulars in person and had conversations with quite a few more. Great people.
As your comment was directed at George, I think it is only fair to embarrass him by saying that, having met him, he is one of the people that are a pleasure and privilege to call a friend.
And finally, a big welcome Max!
Cheers
John
Posted on: 11 August 2009 by pcstockton
quote:Originally posted by Max Steel:
Are these considered acceptable, or have I misunderstood a level of humour?
yes and yes.
First of all, this place is hilarious.
Second of all, if someone (like me) pushes things to far, the post will get pulled.
Have fun!! This is a very unique forum.
-p
Posted on: 11 August 2009 by pcstockton
Nice frame George. That is hot!
Mine.... 650c Wheels, super fast turnover.
Mine.... 650c Wheels, super fast turnover.