HDX Update - Patient survived but lost his memory...

If done correctly, you don't lose any files. I believe this is about proper sequencing with the 4 discs with correct info on them. Can't say what happened in your instance as I haven't done one yet but am aware of successful upgrades.

Is there no way of backing up the HDX HD? Seems like my own iTunes [multiple external HDs are backed up here] is better protected in spite of its tiny relative cost.

With all the work that goes into transferring to HD, whether it be on a computer or a computer based machine like the HDX, it seems to me a cast iron requirement that it can be easily backed up, in case of some failure or later servicing issue.

It seems an Achilles Heel not to be easily possible to do this ...

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by js:
If done correctly, you don't lose any files. I believe this is about proper sequencing with the 4 discs with correct info on them. Can't say what happened in your instance as I haven't done one yet but am aware of successful upgrades.

Well, now you're aware of a not so successful one... As explained, I used only discs 3 and 4, as my HDX was bought at SP10 level and in proper sequence according to the pdf instructions. The HDX works perfectly, for the time being, so I guess that the procedure was followed to the letter...

Up to this v1.5 upgrade, that was the problem George - as you say, something of a Achilles Heel....The 2nd HD in the HDX is indeed a mirror of the 1st, but if you loose the 1st for whatever reason (say software corruption) then the 2nd one comes along and happily repeats the same problem...!....As I've posted long ago, it always seemed a weakness to me for it not be possible to get a library backup off the HDX to a external source - which itself could then be backed up......

1.5 now finally allows the library to be stored to external sources....the Catch 22 comes in getting upgraded to 1.5 - just in case anything happens, as above....

Steve.

As I gradually moved towards Hard Disc rather than regular CD replay, my PC evolved in a stepwise fashion that initially took in a pair of dedicated music file only HDs working as a redundant array [RAID] apart from the normal PC HD which served to hold other files and the computer operating system, and I thought this was a fine idea till I realised that any software corruption of one would automatically mirror with corruption on both. So I had removed the second dedicated music file HD, and set this up as a further external HD for added back-up protection. There are now two on site back-up external HDs and a third completely off site. I am confident that I am more likely to be struck by lightening than loose my music files now.

As a matter of interest some of my oldest CDs [a very few] and quite a proportion of my CD-Rs of LP transfers had corrupted, so that most of my LP transfers were not fine enough to be ripped by any method. iTunes rescued several very rare and unobtainable CDs that EAC simply would not rip, so I was rather pleased that some unplayable CD came back from the dead with the method. I use ALAC files and find the results more than just acceptable.

CDs themselves are no guarantee of perfect file storage forever, but with the effort to keep the external HDs active and connected every now and again, I doubt if I shall loose any music files - as far as the ones [more than 99%] that were perfectly ripped to HD.

The whole issue of backing up and file preservation and the durability of preserved files, is a subject that is not being adequately discussed and provided for, regardless of the HD storage system being adopted by the end user. It requires a certain curiosity and determination of the part of the operator at the moment. IME ...

ATB from George

PS: The OP has my complete sympathy over the loss of music files. Sometimes these are beyond price, and so my comments above are worth-while, I believe.

The entire library could be copied via network sharing since it's inception. Doesn't help lemming at this point unfortunately.

Dear John [js],

This should be advised in bold in the manual, [and it may already be so]. Just as auditioning is crucial to making the right choice with replay kit, backing up is just as crucial for HD based replay.

I hope this becomes more realised in the future.

ATB from George

It shouldn't be required as there are 2 drives precisely for this purpose and updates don't wipe them unless something went quite wrong. Not saying this is lemming's fault as I can't know what happened but I've also seen NAS Raids reformat themselves from errors. Nothing is bullet proof. The network share function is known and a cutomer that wants additional backup will ask his dealer as with any system question. Besides, real men don't read manuals.

quote:

Originally posted by Lemming:

As explained, I used only discs 3 and 4, as my HDX was bought at SP10 level and in proper sequence according to the pdf instructions. The HDX works perfectly, for the time being, so I guess that the procedure was followed to the letter...

Lemming
My HDX was at SP10 level but I used all discs 2 to 4 for the upgrade. Disc 2 from memory updates the updater as well - that may have been the piece you needed.

J

quote:

The network share function is known and a customer that wants additional backup will ask his dealer as with any system question. Besides, real men don't read manuals.

Dear John,

As I said, I do not think the issue of is being emphasised enough. The customer needs to be advised that, in your words, "Nothing is bullet proof," and pointed to the belt and braces approach to file security, IMHO, of course.

Real men can and do read manuals. Only bull-headed idiots don't read them actually, especially where such things as rare and unobtainable musical files are concerned.

I guess your advice to customers may change slightly as a result of this debate?

Best wishes from George

Were these ripped discs that you had edited using the Desktop Client? If so, chances, these are still there, just requiring re-identification. Your retailer / distributor should be able to sort this out for you, or, at least, show you how to identify any changes.

The directory structure of the filesystem changes with this release, with EX / HQ / MQ (CD quality) / LQ folders at the root of the MUSIC share. User edits in the Desktop Client are also handled differently, including artwork.

I suppose that men, women and transexuals are equally obliged to read manuals. Having set this issue, I still wonder why one should update to the same level. It is not logical and in any case this point should have been emphasized, as are other less important issues, in the manual. Yes, the discs were edited using the Desktop Client (I have to use Boot Camp cause I work with an iMac). I'm afraid the distributor is not that experienced in either PC or IT issues. As a matter of fact he hasn't done any updating whatsoever on his sample HDX yet...

Hi lemming,

Frustrating as this is it seems that the situation hasn't been helped by the ability of your dealer which has been compounded his "fire and forget" approach to sending out the update CD's to you.

Potentially, if he had actually updated his system he might have been better placed to support you with a little more precision

Good luck with retrieving your files, hopefully they are just hiding somewhere.

Barrie

quote:

Originally posted by Lemming:
The Naim dealer in Greece provided the updating files (downloaded from the Naim site cause the discs are still on their way...) and I did the job. Everything went smoothly and lasted no more than 30 minutes, all the way from 1.4 SP10 to 1.5a.The results are quite amazing compared to the previous situation (flac decoder is far better, networking extremely flexible and easier to establish, sound is yet to be evaluated).However, all the hard disc data were lost!!! (including some rare discs from various music mags). Any comments or feedback out there? Is that what will occur with any future major updates?

I also lost some albums, mostly where I did renames in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by Lemming:
The Naim dealer in Greece provided the updating files (downloaded from the Naim site cause the discs are still on their way...) and I did the job. Everything went smoothly and lasted no more than 30 minutes, all the way from 1.4 SP10 to 1.5a.The results are quite amazing compared to the previous situation (flac decoder is far better, networking extremely flexible and easier to establish, sound is yet to be evaluated).However, all the hard disc data were lost!!! (including some rare discs from various music mags). Any comments or feedback out there? Is that what will occur with any future major updates?

Hi Lemming,

Best course of action is to get your dealer to contact Naim. As the music is backed-up inside, then the music library should be restorable - NOTE: this should be done ASAP to garuantee music intergrity on the backup drive

Hi,

We have many hundreds of HDX out in the field and the updating of them has - on the whole - been problem free, however, as with any device involving software and software updates in particular there will always be a small instances where something "goes wrong" in the process.

During the update process there should be *NO* reason why you should lose any music and if the Original Poster ("Lemming") has lost all of their music then it would suggest that one of the update stages did not complete sucessfully, more specifically as the music is moved across to the new structure on the server.

(In response to the "You must always back up" posts - we do have a second drive in the unit so as to allow for a backup of any music data to be kept too.)

The good news in this case is that it is *VERY* unlikely that the music is actually gone - the bad news is that we will need access to the machine for a few hours to attempt to reinstate it ... is it possible for the unit to be returned back to the dealer or distributor or is that not practical?

As always - the best source of support should be to contact your dealer or Naim Audio directly and we will endeavour to provide you with a prompt and effective solution.

Cheers

Phil

Thanks Phil. Just a few critical points there. 1. The dealer has little or no expertise regarding networking or computing. As a matter of fact, I was the one to provide feedback on various issues. 2. As I mentioned he is still expecting the updating discs. He hasn't done any updating of his own yet. 3. The unit failed under 1.4b to back up automatically the hard disk content and whenever it was prompted manually to do so I would get a message of the kind "server busy try later"... As I found out later, this should be attributed to the fact that any deleted discs residing in the bin couldn't be erased permanently 4. In fact I dont feel comfortable having the dealer meddling with the hard disks. The only solution would be to have him ship the unit back to Naim...Ooops, that means I say good bye to my music for...how long? A final point. I suppose that no harm was done by the fact that whenever I had to use the DTC I had to reboot from Mac OS X to Windows (via Boot Camp)...

Hi Lemming,

(God I hate online 'nicknames')

It is highly unlikely that we would need the dealer to do anything with the internals of the unit so don't worry about your hard discs being poked about with - we don't need them to remove anything to do what we need to do. :-D

Cheers

Phil

Hey Lemming,

If all this doesnt work then your course is clear.

Where is your nearest cliff?

Thanks guys, thanks Phil, Lemming's alias is Chris...thanks Colin, I hate cliffs (and heights) I'd rather stick my finger into HDX's power unit...(there's an old saying here in Greece: let my soul die along with my enemies...)

quote:

A final point. I suppose that no harm was done by the fact that whenever I had to use the DTC I had to reboot from Mac OS X to Windows (via Boot Camp)...

We do it all the time–I know more custom integrators with MacBook Pros running both Windows and Mac OS X than one might have guessed five years ago (they're great Windows machines). Boot Camp, VMware Fusion and Parallels all make it easy to set up an entire NaimNet system on a Mac.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

quote:

The network share function is known and a customer that wants additional backup will ask his dealer as with any system question. Besides, real men don't read manuals.

Dear John,

As I said, I do not think the issue of is being emphasised enough. The customer needs to be advised that, in your words, "Nothing is bullet proof," and pointed to the belt and braces approach to file security, IMHO, of course.

Real men can and do read manuals. Only bull-headed idiots don't read them actually, especially where such things as rare and unobtainable musical files are concerned.

I guess your advice to customers may change slightly as a result of this debate?

Best wishes from George

Each of my customers is exampled and told this capability before purchase. Generally, they need to ask again when they want to do so and this is related to their network settings and not the HDX. It's not a network manual. Apparently humor is not easily assimilated. So no, nothing much will change. There's a backup drive for a reason and nothing is bullet proof relates more to user error than anything else. We are the smartest monkeys after all and often holding the gun. Myself clearly included.

Our distributor, Dave, was very clear about sequence and completeness of the update process in writing. This was obviously passed to him from HQ as I'm sure it was to all distributors to be done again in turn.

Dear God, I now realize that I haven't just lost my music data but my humour as well...By the way I suggest we rename this section to "Naim that Problem" (in case it is not easily assimilated, this is a joke...)

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Harris:

It is highly unlikely that we would need the dealer to do anything with the internals of the unit so don't worry about your hard discs being poked about with - we don't need them to remove anything to do what we need to do. :-D

Phil, it strikes me if that is the case, then surely someone at Naim HQ can telnet into the wayward HDX and sort it all out remotely, without Lemming being without his music any longer than necessary? One of the benefits of computer technology is remote access/update?
I seem to remember this worked pretty well when someone remotely sorted out my machine prior to the beta update
Cheers
John

Thanks for pointing this out John and obviously we are quite aware of the internets reach but there are very good reasons why we would wish to do this at the dealers site - mainly down to *IF* we do need to start poking around in units for whatever reasons then we can do. We can then ensure that the unit is returned fully working and sorted.

Cheers

Phil