Where am I going wrong?

If not, then ask your dealer for an "emergency demo" with the following equipment.

1) Kairn/LK140/Ninkas
2) Armegeddon/Credos

The first set makes sure that there is no incompatibility problems between your amps and loudspeakers. The use the Ninkas to check whether your loudspeakers have been written-off.

The Armegeddon/Credos takes the switch-mode-power supply (Lingo) out of the system and demonstrates an all-Naim system in your context.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

How did you blow your tweeters and did you replace them yourself?

I would check one by one all components in your electronics/speaker chain - preferably against known non faulty gear. Did you get your electronics second hand and if so have they always sounded 'wrong'.

A 82/250 combo will, if working correctly, give a whole new lease of life to your speakers. If not then something is not right.

Your gear should should excellent, as all of your components are of the highest quality. I can only suggest that you check the set up of

(a) the equipment
(b) the turntable
(c) the mains/interconnect cables/SNAICS
(d) the stands (remember not too tight nuts)
(e) make sure the Lingo is on a separate socket

After you've checked this lot, it may be time to turn your attention to the turntable (and the CD player), which I thik is your 'weakest link'. The 82 is a very revealing pre-amp and it may be that it is revealing your source or set up inadeqacies.

If you need help email me privately.

cheers

Dev

quote:

---

I found my Keildhs became almost unbearable when driven by a 250

---

This is nonsense of course. I ran Keildhs for some time driver by a 250 and throught they were wonderful. Hated SBLs - always have, even when set up properly, so maybe that's where that comes from.

I've found that a change in your system, particularly new speakers (and I'd guess a new tweeter) always takes quite a while to settle in. Whenever I've changed speakers I've always gone through a period where I thought I'd made a big mistake as I was sure my old system sounded better. And then magically after a while they would just change.

Of course you should still check all the other more knowlegable suggestions too

The new tweeters for the Keilidhs were bought from and fitted by Steve of Audiofile, who I've used many times and trust. His input was that tweeters had a minimal run-in period and, in conjuction with them being the latest version currently used in the Kabers/Keltics should provide a small improvement. Bllody right, thought I, at £190 the pair incl fitting.

The Lingo - same as above. Steve also gave the LP12 a service at the same time. Funnily enough I didn't think the Lingo was a huge improvement either, but put this down to modest Akito/Sumiko BluePoint arm & cart combo limiting things.

The 82/Hi/250 were all bought second hand from different private vendors. All of the units checked out as far as the Naim service dept were concerned (and were in good condition) and the Hi-cap was serviced by them as soon as i'd bought it as it was 10 yrs old. The 250 was 15 years old, but had been serviced 18 mths previously. That said, after the 'tweeter' episode, I think I should get Naim to give it the once over.

Have levelled the Soundbases; couldn't manage to level the 2nd pair properly, this is why I've taken them off for the time being.

All the other Mana kit was installed by Damien.

What I didn't mention before was the general lack of rhythym and flow this system now has compared with the 92/140 based rig. Not that the latter was perfect, but I honestly thought the former should build on the overall fine musical qualities I had before.

Steve C 01

Just a quickie, have you looked at the speaker connections at the back of the Keilidhs, take NACA5 to the tweeter and solder another loop of NACA5 to the other set of terminals.

Do not biwire or use the links.

I would also check the mains side of things, a Grahams hydra connecting all your naim kit into one plug should help, and connecting Lingo into a another separate socket should help too.

Also arrange your rack so powersupplies are far away from the rest of the kit. Ideally in yoour set up you should have two racks side by side

on the left rack from the top: LP12, 82, CD3. Them on the right rack from the top: Hicap, Lingo (on one shelf), flat cap, 250.

But as you have one rack - LP12, 82, CD3, Flat, 250. Dunno where you will put the hicap/Lingo, maybe on the floor at the side.

Then try and move the speakers - as mana removes "waffle" from the bass and emphasis the mid, you may need to adjust with speaker position ing to compensate for a good balance.

hope this helps.

ps. i really like keilidhs (and sbls)

If you do infact have the earlier version, disregard my ramblings...

sorry no other ideas....

mykel

Re:

>LP12/Akito/BluePoint<

That BP is in waaaaaaay over its head. I've heard the Sumiko on many systems and once you get past a certain point of quality with partnering equipment it can sound *really* boring, fluffy and muddle the low end. Try a cheap MM to see if this is the problem with the vinyl side of the system.

The Akito is a tad suspect too in terms of your new amplification.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

Make sure that you haven't got the L/R channels the wrong way round (double check because this wrecks the sound in the way that you describe).

From my own experience, big upgrades tend to require a different setup and the more you spend, the more difference it makes - I've just slotted some Isobariks into my system and they sound pathetic compared to my Kans. Once I've sorted the setup it should be a rather different story.

If this sorts the CD replay but not the LP12, ditch the Lingo and go back to the Valhalla. It destroys rhythm. (Howls of derision to follow I suspect.)

Don't buy any more kit, make the most of what you've got.

Regards
Steve

quote:

---

Make sure that you haven't got the L/R channels the wrong way round (double check because this wrecks the sound in the way that you describe).

---

...out of phase can do this too.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Then a few months ago, I built the damned thing back up again (p9, 102 (then 72), hicap, sbls'), etc.

It's funny. Big upgrades like this add a lot of challenges that the smaller systems don't seem to face. And before you know it, the whole damned thing has gotten away from you. (Is that the feeling the original poster has--the system has kinda "gotten away from me".)

AND, situations like this have a way of escalating. You start thinking to yourself

"I just dumped 3k into this damned thing, and it sounds like ass. I know I shouldn't spend any more, but I'd rather have a 4k system that sound like its worth 4k than a 3k system that sounds like it's worth 1k."

You know what I mean? I think the problem arises when people start to think that more expensive gear (especially up the Naim line) will automatically sound better. The fact is, all else being equal, many times it doesn't. Rather, with better gear comes more responsibility in terms of set-up, support equipment, cable dressing, and a whole bunch of other stuff. AND, far too often people will spend the extra 3k while failing to realize the added expense that needs to come with it before it will make an improvement. Many times you will get better sound out of your 3k by spending 2k on equipment and 1k on getting it all to work right.

Cars make nice analogies. The five speed transmission on a porsche is probably "higher performance" than the one on a honda civic. But that doesn't mean that the Honda will perform better with a Porsche trasmission mated to the same 115 hp Honda motor.

Anyway, about a week ago I decided to break the system down completely and re-set the whole thing back up, minus the TT. I took time leveling the racks and speakers, etc. And you know what, the system is starting to sound Ok again. and from this, i also realized that I'm not going to be able to optimize my current system without some better equipment racks. Whereas before, my cheaper stuff worked fine on my cheap racks.

Just my two cents.

judd

--Eric

Try to cut the system down to it's absolute minimum. Remove the tuners, the CD-R, the tape deck. Move them into another room.

Take out the Mana. I'm not criticising it, but it's a complication you don't need for now. If you have a carpeted floor, try placing the minimum system (as below) down straight onto the carpet, respecting any necessary spacings.

Take out the LP12. Move it into another room. No, really.

Cut the Flatcap from the CD3.5.

Amps are going to be more of a problem, since you can't remove any of the three boxes. Try the flatcap in place of the HiCap (can't hurt to eliminate the Hi as the problem).

Make sure the CD & 82 are well separated from any powered item.

Do you have any of your old amp gear? Try to substitute as appropriate.

If you have an old integrated amp (of any make), try this in place of the Naims.

If you have any other speakers in the house, try these instead.

Speaker cables - make sure these aren't coiled up. Are you using NAC A5?

Have you brought anything else into the listening room, recently?

Cheers, Martin

Just to clarify - I had the Mana rack & stands BEFORE I upgraded the amps, and was overall pretty happy with the results. The Lingo wasn't a problem either. So - seems to be narrowed down to one or more of the following:

- residual problems with Keilidh after 'blown tweeter' episode.
- residual problem with 250 after the same issue.
- setup issues after upgrading amps.
- setup issue after getting 2nd pair of Soundbases.

Due to wife enforced space restrictions, have got kit in following order:

- LP12 on Reference Top
Lingo underneath
- CD3.5 & Flat
- 82
- Pioneer CDR
- NAT02 & 250 on bottom shelf
- HiCap & NAPSC in space b/w last shelf and soundstage.

This layout is probably not ideal, and as I believe the setup scenario is the most likely (as I've now temporarily removed the 2nd pair of Soundbases), so will completely dismantle kit, relevel rack/stands and then put back CD & amps back initially to gauge results and then add back piece by piece.

Will let you know how it goes.

(Small consolation that I'm not the only one that's fallen into a 'black hole' sound quality wise)

Steve C 01