London Congestion Charge
Posted by: Phil Cork on 01 May 2006
Hi all,
What a nightmare these people are. How's this for admin gone mad:
I was in London with a hire car for a couple of days back in January, when I forgot to pay the congestion charge on time.
I called the very next day to pay my £50 fine, explained the situation - that although I'm a UK citizen I am a US resident and would be heading back to the US in a couple of days. I therefore didn't want the fine to go to the hire car company and then be referred to me as this would take several days by which time I would be back in DC, and any mail would go to my UK address.
The LCC employee on the other end said that it wasn't showing on the system yet and that I should wait a couple of days before calling again in order for it to show up on the system.
I did this, called them back, and paid the £50 fine, again explaining the situation. I thought the matter was closed, so took no further action. I had paid the fine, and they'd accepted it.
Imagine my surprise however when I received my post from the UK last week, to find that they had been chasing me for payment since January and that the fine is now £155!
I called them today, and was told that having chased the hire car company for the money (for some reason), the hire car company had 'made a representation' that I was the driver of the vehicle. LCC had therefore refunded the £50 back onto my debit card, and re-issued the penalty charge notice to my address in the UK!
I had several questions for them as you can imagine, the first being "why the hell would you do that?"
Apparently they're obliged to follow up the driver that the hire care company says was driving. I said that this was unnecessary as they already had payment from me. Their answer - "we don't know who it's from"
Surely you do, I said. I called with my name, the car registration plate details, and my credit card details. You have a payment on your system from me and are unable to check it against the name given by the hire car company. "That's right Mr Cork"
Good grief!
So I now have to call the "traffic enforcement" people and explain the situation, make a declaration as to the circumstances, in order to get the £155 reduced to £50 again (I hope), and then pay them again!!
Anyone else think this is rediculous?
Phil
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by paul_g
quote:
Originally posted by Phil Cork:
Anyone else think this is rediculous?
No of course not - I'm sure this is exactly what Ken Livingstone had in mind when the system was introduced.
You're just being a grumpy old man again Phil !
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by Phil Cork
Sorry - but it is plain ridiculous!
err, spelt correctly this time!
I asked why they had to refund the money that had been paid against the penalty, and they said that it might not have been from the person liable. I asked why on earth someone would call up with the correct details and pay a fine that wasn't theirs??
No answer on that one.
Hmmm.
Phil@grumpy.old.man
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by paul_g
I'd pay up if I were you 'cos they'll probably rescind your passport next .....
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by MichaelC
Tell them to take a running leap. You have paid the fine. The fact that they are morons of the very first order is not your problem. Any further correspondence in connection wit this matter will give rise to a charge of £50 rising on an exponential scale thereafter.
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by Cosmoliu
Phil,
Obviously, a situation that makes you want to scream. For one uninitiated, and in the extremely unlikely event that I would ever want to rent a car to drive in London, could you expand briefly on the congestion charge and the penalty? I had read somewhere about the effort to reduce traffic/pollution in central London but several questions occur to me. Could such a charge have been paid through the rental company at the time of the rental? How did the authorities know the car was in violation; is there normally a sticker on the windshield or elsewhere? Do they issue a ticket/citation much like a parking ticket?
Thanks for your endulgence.
Norman
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by Ancipital
Norman
Welome to the world of Big Brother that is the UK (Highest number of surveillance cameras in the world).
At the entry point to the congestion zone are cameras that can read numberplates. If you don't pay the charge that day, you are then liable for the fine. They will chase you round everywhere.
For instance, being in Europe doesn't help as they have relationships with debt collection agencies round Europe to persue the debt on their behalf.
I think the way they make their money is off of people who stray into the zone by accident and don't pay because they didn't realise they had done it.
Oh, and they have mobile camera units that are planted at strategic locations to get those people that know the roads to get into the congestion zone that don't have cameras on.
Me, I ride a motorbike into London, so am not liable for congestion charging (yet!).
Steve.
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by erik scothron
quote:
Originally posted by Ancipital:
Norman
Welome to the world of Big Brother that is the UK (Highest number of surveillance cameras in the world).
Yep, and just wait until we all have to carry ID cards - that's when the fun will really begin.
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by Guido Fawkes
As it says in Wikipedia: there was only one man to ever enter parliament with honourable intentions - his name Guy de Faglio Fawkes.
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by Cosmoliu
quote:
Originally posted by Ancipital:
At the entry point to the congestion zone are cameras that can read numberplates. If you don't pay the charge that day, you are then liable for the fine. They will chase you round everywhere.
Steve.
Thanks very much for that, Steve. Does a warm body review all the photos, or is it automated? How does one pay the day's fee; boxes on every street corner? Online? Personal account set up for each car? Are there monthly/yearly permits for those who drive in town every day? This sounds fascinating, at least to me.
Norman
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by Two-Sheds
since you were heading back to the US, you should have said you work for the US embassy. They apparently owe £271,000 for this charge.
See here for the full story.
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by Guido Fawkes
Norman
As you enter London you get warning signs - you can pull off the road and phone a service desk and pay the charge using a credit card.
The appearance of the signs suddenly hits people who think "Oh no I'm enetering the zone, I'll get done" and so they slam on the breaks and it's a nightmare for the following car. In fact the sign says the zone starts in 10 miles or so and the worried driver's reaction is unnecessary. Although it is billed as a congestion charge, it is simply another stealth tax and opportunity for authorities to waste money on pet projects.
In my area of the country, there is also rumour of congestion charges. Our council spends the money on 'road narrowing' schemes and putting bumps in the road that damage cars and cause strange driving habits. Recently they put down a road full of bumps, then dug it all up and resurfaced the road and then reinstalled the bumps. However, I'm not cynical enough to suggest it was because a counciller's brother owned the building contractor responsible, that was, of course, a pure coincidence. I'm sure our council is not corrupt, as the current court case will no doubt prove.
Rotf
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by Rasher
In the UK, not paying your congestion charge is like not paying your council tax; they'll sling you in jail whatever your circumstances. If you go out and rape and murder children however, you'll get a warning and be free to do it again.
If it isn't about money, it isn't important.
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by Ancipital
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmoliu:
Thanks very much for that, Steve. Does a warm body review all the photos, or is it automated? How does one pay the day's fee; boxes on every street corner? Online? Personal account set up for each car? Are there monthly/yearly permits for those who drive in town every day? This sounds fascinating, at least to me.
Norman
It's pretty much automated afaik.
Rather than me blathering on about how it works, here's a Wiki on
congestion charging in LondonPosted on: 02 May 2006 by Steve Toy
The freedom to move around on UK public roads as you please is in danger unless we have a change in government soon. Red Ken, although independent, is just another authoritarian control freak loony leftist of which there are too many at large in this country.
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by PatG
Actually, I believe Britain is getting ot right in respect of road privatisation.
The sooner they extend it to all roads the better.
If one can afford to pay £2000 for a CD player, the what would you pay to have great stress free and largely empty (private) roads to drive on?
Lets say £500 p.a for a regular car? I'd reckon it would be worth it!
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by Steve Toy
Private toll roads in addition to the existing network are fine. Road pricing OTOH is another surveillance/limitation-of-movement tool.
Those who think it's a good idea are turkies voting for Christmas.
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by Cosmoliu
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Recently they put down a road full of bumps, then dug it all up and resurfaced the road and then reinstalled the bumps... I'm sure our council is not corrupt, as the current court case will no doubt prove.
Rotf
Thanks, Rotf, for the very complete explanation. Sounds like quite a lot of fun, driving in London.
We live in a small college town on the CA central coast, San Luis Obispo. There is a two lane street through a quiet neighborhood that became more of a thoroughfare than was intended, and the city fathers wanted to encourage traffic to go a couple of blocks east to a four lane road more suited to the purpose. They installed speed bumps every couple of hundred feet, with results similar to what you describe. However, college students being the resourseful types they are, many would honk the car's horn as they crossed each bump, disturbing the very quiet the residents had wanted to re-establish. Out the bumps went. However, the final solution was, indeed, inspired: where stop signs originally were installed every three or four blocks, the city put in a stop sign at almost every intersection, thereby eliminating Chorro street as a time saving short cut.
Norman
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by Steve Toy
They should honk their horns at the stop signs then.
Posted on: 03 May 2006 by Rockingdoc
As someone who actually lives in London, I would like to say that Transport for London (TFL) has greatly improved my ability to get around. This is, of course, the point.
Idiot mishandling of fines is a separate issue.
Posted on: 03 May 2006 by Ancipital
quote:
Originally posted by PatG:
Actually, I believe Britain is getting ot right in respect of road privatisation.
The sooner they extend it to all roads the better.
If one can afford to pay £2000 for a CD player, the what would you pay to have great stress free and largely empty (private) roads to drive on?
Lets say £500 p.a for a regular car? I'd reckon it would be worth it!
And what about those that can't afford it? There are those of us that don't live in an area with very good public transport or easy connections into a city.
Pricing people off of the roads would cause immense hardship to those people who have to travel by car to reach their place of work because there are no other means of transport.
Would you like to recreate the peasantry to till the land and keep pushing them down so they stay at the bottom?
Bit of an extreme view but living out in a country area with reasonable, but not good, transport links (a small train station where some trains stop - when there isn't a problem on the line), I have a view on what a lot of people take for granted as good public transport. I know many areas locally that would completely and utterly stuff the local population if they couldn't afford to drive.
Pah!
Steve.
Posted on: 03 May 2006 by Steve Toy
quote:
Would you like to recreate the peasantry to till the land and keep pushing them down so they stay at the bottom?
That's exactly what will happen and what this government wants. The vast majority of folks won't realise this until it's too late, and vast fortunes have been spent on a system that will haved to be recouped.
Posted on: 03 May 2006 by Guido Fawkes
William Langland, The vision and the creed of Piers Ploughman
the peasents can't pay a penny more
you can see it in their eyes
if only a leader they could find
in revolt they'd rise- John Bull friend of Wat Tyler (England's greatest hero)
