The RR1 so far.

The RR2 will take much higher levels of volume. However, at that price I would be tempted to go for the Ninka... speaking of Linn, if you want to keep to the same price point then the Katans are f***ing brilliant.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I got the impression which ever model the Audio Counsel were using atbthe show had potential, but they had not quite got them to work. The stuff upstream was Densen (which I normally like).

Tony.

Give them a chance to come into their own. I heard a pair straight out of the box at my local dealer. Although the mids were wonderfully coherent, the lows and highs definitely exhibited that pillow effect. I heard the same units a few more times, and with each occurance they were getting better and better.

I assume that you're driving them with your 140. Royd has said that the new Nait5 isn't enough for them, but that the 150 is sufficient, and I'm sure that the 140 will be fine as well. (Sometimes the 140 seems to be better than the 150, from a brute force perspective.)

BTW, Royd suggests that they be placed FAR________APART, which doesn't seem entirely normal. I've heard them in "normal" positions, though, and they seemed fine that way.

-=> MIke Hanson <=-

quote:

---

Royd claim all three models go down to 20Hz. I find this very hard to believe.

---

These RR1 certainly go deeper than previous spkrs i've owned but 20hz seems optimistic. 20hz @-12db maybe...

I don't think i've ever heard flat 20hz from a stereo system before. At live events, what seems to be (a hugely boosted) 25-35 hz shakes the fluid in my eyeballs and distorts reality.

quote:

---

That's probably why you're hearing that strange noise. As they loosen up, your amp will be able to control them a little easier.

---

I'll bring 'em in to the dealer soon to see what he thinks. I hope you're right, but I've got a gut feeling that something's wrong.

quote:

---

Royd suggests that they be placed FAR________APART, which doesn't seem entirely normal.

---

Just for kicks, I plonked them on the long wall. The arrangement looks totally wacky, but it works. The sound was cleaner and vocals magically hang dead center. A neat effect. Imaging from a Naim system?

Assuming these things work out, I'll rearrange the room for long wall placement.

I was hoping for a speaker that kept Naim qualities whilst giving me decent synth bass with less overhang. It seems very unlikely so far. I hope to eat these words in the next couple weeks.

Typical symptoms were: the bass was kind of in tune, but it wasn't controlled. Timing cues were smeared by the fact that Densen always goes belly-up at both frequency extremes with Chord Chrysalis, and image detail/focus was also smeared.

Now, a Densen B200 will do the same job as a Naim Nac 82/Hicap, IMHO, but it needs decent interconnects. Sticking with the Chord brand you can use Anthems, but they cost a bit, but no where near as much as using an 82/Hi, with Naim i/cs that are free.

On the day, Audio Counsel were running the Densen system against a Naim CDX/102/250 (I think) side by side, into those Royds, and the Naim system was better, IMHO, but I would have loved to have heard the CDX into the Densen amps with the Chord Anthem i/cs in that system in that particular room, as I believe it would have been something special, and may have taken the show by storm!

If ONLY I had brought my Anthems to prove the point, and the Audio Counsel guys had had the time and the inclination to do a bit of mixing and matching with the two systems there on offer.

Those wood wedge stands looked a bit dodgy as well, IMHO!

It's always a nice day for it Have a good one!
Steve.
It's good to get back to normal.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on THURSDAY 22 November 2001 at 02:19.]

quote:

---

And did you listen at your preferred volume level? If not I think that was a mistake either by yourself or your dealer.

---

Chalk it up as a mistake by myself.

I took it for granted that speakers should roll off bass notes they can't handle. Here, the RR1 digs deep, but the cones tend to lose composure at higher volumes.

They're starting to open up a bit, so the muffled quality isn't as obvious anymore. Certainly scared the sh*t out of me out of the box, though.

quote:

---

Just reread your post, volume at 10 o'clock! That is too loud for RR1's imho.

---

Unfortunately, 10 o'clock is when they start to rock.
As sad as it seems, my main issue is that they just can't go loud enough, especially with my musical tastes.
I'm listening to some Meshell Ndegeocello at low volume and they're quite stunning, but tomorrow I'll crank some Massive Attack and they'll do their bottoming out trick again.

What pisses me off is that i've spent so much money and still have so many compromises.
My dealer is good though, and will help me through this.

Go for the Linn Katans - they handle Massive Attack no problem. That's if your dealer stocks Linn, or maybe you can get your money back and try them elsewhere.

Looking at your picture, the Katans will fit your room and cost about the same as the RR1s, when you include the stands. The Katan stands do, on first inspection, look rather stylised, but they are designed to suite the loudspeaker.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

quote:

---

Unfortunately, 10 o'clock is when they start to rock.

---

The RR1 is less efficient than many other speakers that I've tried. I also noticed that the volume knob needed extreme cranking for them to light up and seem "normal" (compared to most other speakers). As long as your amp isn't distorting at this level, then you should probably be fine.

Royd speakers are definitely great with acoustic material. I found that my Albions needed lots of power to handle the electronic stuff with aplomb. My 140 wasn't enough (I like it LOUD), but the 250 had no difficulty. Considering the RR1 is harder to drive than the Albion, you may find that you don't have enough juice from your 140 to keep you happy.

I would probably change speakers if I were you, unless you want to suffer a severe case of upgraditis. (Believe me, that can get VERY expensive. )

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

What about the RR2's ? Ever had any experience with them? The reason behind the question is that I have been considering checking them out when school is done. ( Are computers not wonderful - what other career do you need to go back to school for almost complete re-training every 5 years ?!?! )

I am currently running a 160 into Kan 1 's. Current short list includes:

Royd RR2 ( guess RR1 is off of the list )
Neat Mystique (Elite is prob out of range $)
Linn Ninka
Royd Abbott if the price is right
PMc FB1

I looked into the JMLabs, had a quick listen to a couple of models - didn't like them - in the short run I found them too metalic.
( Utopia's are another story )

Any other ideas - room is a concern so close to wall is a good thing.

MikeS

Have you contacted Royd themselves too see what they have to say about your predicament ? While waiting for them to loosen up and fully break in may provide the trick, contacting the factory may confirm or deny your suspisions. The only review I have read on the RR1 said they used ( in part ) a 250 and they loved the power, opened right up but did not do volume.

Good luck

Regards,

mykel

The Abbot is a nice speaker, and can be had pretty cheap nowadays. It can probably go louder than the RR2, but I think the RR2 is a better speaker overall.

The Mystiques aren't as good as the RR1 (although they are more efficient).

I've not heard the FB1. However, I didn't like the LB1; the bass was rather strange (almost "one note", probably due to the transmission line design).

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

I'll take the Katan for a spin, thanks.

Mike,

I'm not convinced TL's = one note bass, unless the Rega Ela family are exceptions to the rule.

quote:

---

unless you want to suffer a severe case of upgraditis

---

Mykel,

Unless i'm mistaken, the RR2 about the same price as the Elite ~ 4.5 thou.
I haven't spoken to Royd directly, as my conversation will basically amount to whining how their speaker isn't right for me.

Going to the dealer this weekend with my RR1, will let ya'll know what happens...

redeye

Amazing how ~1200 pounds turns into $4500.00 cdn.
I was expecting closer to 3500.00 working on a list of 1200 x a 2.5 conversion factor = 3000 + 500 for shipping, misc etc

Thanks for the cold-water wake-up.

mykel

I heard the both the RR1s and the RR2s at the Bristol (UK) show last Feb. The system was CD5 / 112 / FC2 / 150 / A5 on IsoBlue and sounded stunning -- really bouncy and "unfettered". The room was an ordinary concrete hotel room about 12' x 15' (ie smaller than you'd expect in your part of the world), and the speakers were on the long wall, probably about 9' apart, about 3' from the corners, and about 10" or less from the back wall, with ports inwards. I had with me a copy of "Mirrors of Embarrasment" (Col. Bruce Hampton & The Aquarium Rescue Unit -- not, er, an acoustic band) and both RR1s and RR2s coped with this perfectly well at about 11.30 on the dial, producing big grins from all present, including the Ackroyds. Yes, the RR2 was better, as it should be for the money, but I personally could have lived with what the RR1s were doing.

I then wandered into the Music Works room, where they had a CDX / 82 / HiCap / 180 / A5 / small JMLabs speakers on Quadraspire (probably a Reference protoype) which seemed dissappointingly listless by comparison, although I'm sure it would have been OK in isolation. It just sounded "like a good stereo" rather than really projecting as the Royd system had done.

Tony:
From memory, the Royd blurb claims an overall, "in-room" response of 22hz to 20khz. As they do not qualify the rolloffs, surely this is reasonable? I know pretty much zilch about loudspeaker design, but it was obvious to me that these speakers use their ports in a radically different way to almost any other box with a hole in my experience. They worked.

...and I really admire their perversity in refusing to have email at the office.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Ended up prefering the Neats. To my ears they seemed more balanced and groovier than Credo and can make more noise than the RR1.
So, the RR1s are returned and I await a pair of Neat Mystiques. Even though I would have saved a lot of trouble going for Neats in the first place, it was a good learning experience and at least I know what RR1s sound like.

In the meantime, my Dad kindly leant me his pair of AR3a. Does anyone know what the A/B switch on the back does and if they're supposed to be mirror imaged?

Crisis over,

Thanks to my dealer and everyone who helped.

Mike.

[This message was edited by Mike Sae on SUNDAY 25 November 2001 at 08:48.]

thanks

mykel

Petites are 2500
Mystiques are 2500
RR2 are 3900 (but a fellow forum member was quoted 4500 from the distributor)
RR1 are 2700

cheers,

Mike

[This message was edited by Mike Sae on SUNDAY 25 November 2001 at 22:20.]

mykel

quote:

---

RR2 are 3900 (but a fellow forum member was quoted 4500 from the distributor)

---

When Robert Fulton (the distributor) first got the RR1 and RR2 into the country, he was thinking about always getting the RR2 with the optional stand. However, I believe he's changed his mind since then. This would probably explain the difference in prices.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Couldn't figure out what the hell they did, but now that you've told me , the A setting is definately brighter.

Do you have any pictures of your new speakers?

[This message was edited by Edwin on FRIDAY 30 November 2001 at 22:03.]

They should be in by the end of next week. Sure, if you want I can post pics. Was there anything in particular you wanted to see?

Please ignore tacky wall decor. I've got an even tackier poster from the Cowboy Junkies (which Margo Timmins signed for me ) and a Portishead tour poster waiting to get framed.