I'd like to pick the collective brains of the forum on this.
I'm planning a cartridge upgrade, but I've run into a problem. These days it's difficult enough to get an in-shop demo of a cartridge, never mind a home dem (which I'd really like), especially on a mid-range item - the main contender is a Dynavector 17D, with the possibility of a Troika for rebuild.
What I've been thinking is this: in order to finally convince myself that the 17D suits me (or not), I'd like to source a used one that I could trade-in against a new one, but with enough life left in it to give an "extended home dem" for a few months.
As I said, the other alternative would be a Troika for rebuild, but again, I'd really like one with some life left, so that I could try it out before shelling out for the rebuild.
So, my questions are, does the above plan sound feasible? If so, any suggestions about how much I'd have to pay for a used 17D or Troika? And lastly, (with due deference to this not being a classifieds forum) where might be the best place source the cartridge?
Cheers,
Chris L
Posted on: 08 April 2002 by Alex S.
I think the 17D2 and Troika are about the best in their price bracket. Preference usually depends on tone arm, with Aro/DV and Linn arm/Troika being the usual choice. What arm have you got on your LP12?
Purchasing s/h carts is a risky business for obvious reasons. Perhaps you'll get lucky and someone'll offer something from here. Otherwise the usual channels of ebay and Loot could be tried; you could flag something in the Loot wants list if nothing happens.
Alternative ideas include: ringing Expert Stylus and seeing if they have anything they haven't yet rebuilt and are willing to let you buy/try on the basis that they rebuild it if you like it and possibly buy it back if you don't; Asking Pear Audio if they have any 17D2s lying about the place which still work; Approaching a good DV dealer, Grahams is one such, and seeing if any 17D2s have been traded-in with some life left in them.
Alex
Posted on: 08 April 2002 by kan man
Hi Chris
I had to make exactly the choice (Troika v 17D2) you are facing a while ago and I'm sure that if you have a good relationship with your dealer they will be able to help. Mine retipped the Troika and let me try it and when I told them what I liked and what I felt was missing they supplied a 17D2 which I bought. Tell us about your musical tastes because I think the choice is dependant on that.
Both cartridges are extremely good. I preferred the Troika on some material and the 17D2 on others. I suspect it will come down to your taste in music and the aspects of it that you are particularly partial to. To my ears, the Troika has a bigger, lusher sound and is great with slower more accoustic stuff. The DV is leaner, faster and conveys drive and rhythm better and to my ears 'rocks' far more, thus being better suited to driving rock and rhythm dependant music. I can't say what either is like with classical but I would guess that the Troika would be better for me if I liked classical.
In an ideal world I would like the best characteristics of both cartridges but I guess that costs a whole lot more money than £450-£500.
One other thing to consider is that there are other ways to spend the money on an upgrade if the cartridge you have is ok. I found mana under the LP12 to be a more cost effective upgrade and I've not come across anyone on this forum who dislikes it under this TT.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 08 April 2002 by Chris L
Alex S,
quote:
What arm have you got on your LP12?
I'm using an Aro.
quote:
Purchasing s/h carts is a risky business for obvious reasons
I entirely agree. That's why it's only really viable, under normal circumstances, if it's for trade-in or rebuild.
The problem with the 17D is that Dynavector seem to be so good that often people stick with the company when upgrading. And their trade-in policy is so worth while, that most used ones get traded-in.
Another option would be that I've had an offer of a Dynavector XX1 at a good price, from a trustworthy source that would allow me a proper dem. But I'm hedging a bit on it after some of the comments I've seen relating to this cartridge - any thoughts on that in my current situation?
Chris L
Posted on: 08 April 2002 by Chris L
Steve (kan man),
quote:
One other thing to consider is that there are other ways to spend the money on an upgrade if the cartridge you have is ok
I think most people here would say that my Sumiko Blue Point Special was in desperate need of replacement. In truth, I like it, except for a rather excessive sibilance on "s"'s and "sh"'s - which has only started since I got my Aro, it was fine on the Raga arms.
My musical tastes are quite wide: classical, rock, jazz, blues, rock'n'roll - pretty much most areas except dance, rap, techno and heavy metal.
From your description, the 17D is probably the one for me. The problem is, I'd like a good long dem before I decide, and I find listening in a shop is not usually the best way. It may sound odd having spent the money on the Aro, to then worry about shelling out well under half what it cost on a cartridge, but the £450-500 for the 17D is not a lot for the right cartridge, but I think it's a hell of a lot for the wrong one!
Chris L
Posted on: 08 April 2002 by Dev B
Hi Chris,
About four years ago I owned the 17D2 and Troika and was able to make a few comparisons on my LP12/Aro. Firstly, there have been two versions of the 17D2. The original had a lower output and was bass light, the current one has a higher output and has more mid bass but generally does not sound so lightweight. Compared to a good Troika (and remember there is greater sample inconsistency in carts than anything else) I felt that the original 17D2 has a very clean top end, very nice mid but not enough bass drive or as rhythmically good as the Troika - but it is an excellent cartridge. When I re-installed the Troika the first thing that I noticed and liked was the excellent bass drive and also the warmish character which suited my system really well. Both are fine cartridges but I would go for the Linn or maybe a new Lydian Beta or other Scan-tech manufactured device.
regards
Dev
Posted on: 09 April 2002 by Dev B
I have never compared the Troika and the Lydian side by side.
All I can say is that I have heard the Lydian, Clavis and Parnassus on LP12's and really like them. I use the ArkivB which I like alot.
I didn't really like the Arkiv1 as it had no rhythm but was very clear sounding.
As to your question, you are probably better off with a new cartridge or a totally refurbished older one as it would perform better than an old Troika, Karma, etc which must surely be a bit worn by now.
regards
Dev.
Posted on: 09 April 2002 by Chris L
Alex,
quote:
why not find someone willing to smuggle an XX2 or a Te Kaitora back from Japan in their hand luggage
There are a few reasons I'm not keen on this. One: I don't know anyone that could do it! Two: Haven't DV sorted out their pricing structure, so the difference isn't as big anymore? Three: no aftersales support. Four: No trade-in (in the future). And Five: no dem.
I may have to start another thread to attract the attention of Ken C and Bosh regarding the XX1.
Chris L
