*****es Brew
Posted by: Nuno Baptista on 07 September 2006
I wonder if I should buy this album.Some say is not jazz,but others seem to like it very much as a kind of experimental jazz!
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Tam
I think it certainly is jazz (though possibly not in what might be termed the 'traditional' sense). It is also a fantastic album. That said, it's also rather tough to describe (though I think a lot of Miles' work of that period is something of an expression of anger that a lot of the promises made by things like the civil rights act, had not been delivered entirely).
I isn't to all tastes (I can't see, say, Fredrik, getting on too well with it), and I would advise trying to have a listen first but it is a wonderful and rewarding work.
That said, if Miles' work of that period is entirely new to you, In a Silent Way and Jack Johnson probably offer a better starting off point (I certainly think they're both a little more accessible - but then that may well be down to personal taste).
regards, Tam
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by matt podniesinski
I love this album. That being said it may be the most polarizing of Miles's albums. Tam's suggestion of In A Silent Way or Jack Johnson to start is a pretty good idea. While I find Bitches Brew almost mesmerizing others recoil.
Good luck!
Matt
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Nuno Baptista
I think I will follow Tam´s advice and start for"In a silent way"
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by nicnaim
There are some fantastic musicians playing on the album, Wayne Shorter, Chick Corea, John McLaughlin, Dave Holland, Jack DeJohnette, Joe Zawinul, "and many others" as it says on the cover of the remastered version I have.
As Tam says, it is very difficult to describe, but it is not one for playing in the background at a social gathering, more of a solitary pleasure.
What other Miles records have you got already Nuno? That would make direction easier. Tam has given a couple of excellent choices to get, but there are plenty of others to choose. It took me a while to build up to Bitches Brew, but I really enjoy it under the right circumstances.
Regards
Nic
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Nuno Baptista
I´ve got the Columbia recordings Miles with Coltrane and Miles Davis Quintet 1965-68,and a few albuns like Birth of the cool!
Posted on: 07 September 2006 by Malky
[QUOTE]Originally posted by matt podniesinski:
I love this album. That being said it may be the most polarizing of Miles's albums.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
No. That would be 'On The Corner' which leaves 'Bitches Brew' sounding like Jamie Cullum.
Posted on: 08 September 2006 by Max Bass
Bitches Brew is one of the first fusion albums back in the day. A great album. It was Miles way of moving forward. A reaction to some of the new stuff he was hearing: Jimmie Hendrix, Sly & the Family Stone, Carlos Santana. Those were the sounds he was hearing and trying to incorporate.
KOB is now doubt a classic, and forever, a welcome spin on the hifi. If you want to really hear some clasic Miles hard bop, pick up the four CD/album cycle: Cookin', Walkin', Workin', and Relaxin'. Great line-up, great tunes, unbeatable performances.
Miles Davis had so many differnt periods in jazz and many more great albums. He is a history of jazz unto himself, and a great artist to explore. Enjoy the ride.
Max
Posted on: 08 September 2006 by nicnaim
quote:
Originally posted by Nuno Baptista:
I´ve got the Columbia recordings Miles with Coltrane and Miles Davis Quintet 1965-68,and a few albuns like Birth of the cool!
Nuno,
You are going to have fun and get poorer. I've not heard the alternative versions on your Columbia recordings, but I do like the original Milestones album some of which will already be familiar to you. In addition to the albums already mentioned by others I would also add Sketches of Spain as a must have.
Regards
Nic
Posted on: 09 September 2006 by jcs_smith
I'm particularly keen on later periodf Miles - round about Filles de Killimanjairo onwartds. There are a few of the live doubvles that are naff - like Pangea, Live Evil or Live at the Fillmore. But apart from those the one I really don't get on with is Bitches Brew. Too much bass clarinet and too tedious overall - for me at least. Of that period I would recommend, in order
1. In a silent way
2. Jack Johnson
3. On the Corner
4. Agharta
5. Filles de kilimanjairo
6. We want miles
7. Star people
8. You're under arrest
The last 3 are very late Miles. Kind of funky and very different fromn the rest. Al lot of people seem to think they are a step too far, in which case We want Miles would be the most accessible
Posted on: 09 September 2006 by Voltaire
I recently snapped up this album at HIV 1/2 price and I only listened to it once. I will listen again but I made the mistake of putting it on Sunday morning when I woke up, I suspect a fair hearing would be late evening with the drapes pulled and the merlot flowing.
Posted on: 09 September 2006 by Voltaire
quote:
Originally posted by Voltaire:
I recently snapped up this album at HIV 1/2 price and I only listened to it once. I will listen again but I made the mistake of putting it on Sunday morning when I woke up, I suspect a fair hearing would be late evening with the drapes closed and the merlot opened.
Posted on: 09 September 2006 by Voltaire
OOPS, I meant too edit, not quote!
Posted on: 10 September 2006 by Scott in DC
Much of the controversy with Bitches Brew had to do with people being used to Miles doing albums in a more traditional, acoustic jazz style and then hearing his new (at that time) change of style. If you had been a fan of his output up until 1968 then I'm sure many found Bitches Brew to be too much of a radical departure from the records he had been making a few years earlier.
For someone like me who grew up listening to rock and knowing Pink Floyd and King Crimson in high school I can make the transition to BB era and later Miles Davis without trouble. Imagine how it was for those who came of age listening to Ben Webster and Gerry Mulligan.
Scott
Posted on: 12 September 2006 by Pete
I bought Bitches Brew back in '88, just as my musical tastes were starting to broaden. I played it, and could discern no music at all in about 80 minutes of whirring noises, so I gave it away and moved on. We all make mistakes, as the Dalek said, climbing off the dustbin.
Cut forward to the late 90s. My musical tastes had grown a fair bit by then, but I'd never though to take on BB again. But by chance I was given temporary care of a record collection while its owner went to Canada for a couple of years, and there was BB, and one day I thought I'd give it a go... Instantly groove-tastic and I loved every minute, went and bought my own copy!
In A Silent Way is probably more accessible, but runs in similar overall directions. But as you may tell from the above story it's difficult to predict if anyone will or won't like it in advance. Buy it from Fopp, and take it back if you don't like it!
Pete.
Posted on: 14 September 2006 by Seanbeer
i have this album. I tends to forget about this ablum when it comes to miles davis, ususally i spin in a slient way when i want some fusion miles. but hey guys, try it when you are really angry about something, play bitches brew, its amazing.
try it and you will know what i mean !
and any one here know what happened in the studio when it is being recorded? may be this is why it is so moving when one is angry.
Posted on: 14 September 2006 by Tam
As I said above, I think the anger has a lot to do with Miles' feelings about civil rights (as issue he was sometimes on the wrong side of - e.g. the occasion when he was assaulted by a police officer after having been forced to leave a club he was playing at in order to smoke - only white people were allowed to smoke inside - he was then arrested for his troubles).
The story behind the wonderful 1964 concert is also interesting. Just prior to going on stage Miles had a blazing row with the band - after he insisted they play for free and donate their fees to a civil rights charity. For the rest of the band, this was a good deal more of a hardship that it was for Miles. But in the end, they all went out and played one of the most amazing live concerts on disc. Interestingly, though, I don't find the music to be angry in the way I do with Bitches Brew. I also don't think the anger is unique to the album Jack Johnson is very angry, as is much of his work from that time.
regards, Tam
Posted on: 14 September 2006 by Seanbeer
if i didn't remeber wrongly, while in the recoriding studio for that session, miles was pissed off by his manager, he get very angry about him and then started off the recording and here comes the bitches brew session.
i am not very sure, but i remeber i read it somewhere.
Posted on: 14 September 2006 by Tam
I've check my Ian Carr biography and you're quite right - Miles and Teo Macero did indeed have a blazing row (apparently over Miles' insistance that Macero fire his secretary). Carr suggests to some degree, on both sides, this may have been more than a little intentional in order to get everyone fired up.
regards, Tam
p.s. The Carr book is excellent and I can't recommend it highly enough.
Posted on: 14 September 2006 by Seanbeer
i think i read it from Ian's book too about this story. another good read would naturally be miles auto-biography if you don't mind lots of F words in it. its more interesting i think
Posted on: 14 September 2006 by fred simon
Just to clarify re: the alleged fight between Teo and Miles prior to the Bitches Brew session ... Teo was Miles' producer, not manager. Further, some sources have Miles discounting the incident.
Finally, it doesn't really matter as far as the music itself ... in most cases a one-to-one correlation between specific incidents, moods, etc. and the nature of the music isn't a given. Music is very large, and contains almost everything. The idea that the music was tumultuous or sounded "angry" because of their argument is theoretical at best ... it's just as likely, possibly even more so, that the music was the balm. For instance, whenever I have to play or record when I'm ill, I often feel much better during the actual playing. Or I may be upset about something but it doesn't mean that I play upset ... music can often turn things around.
Fred
Posted on: 14 September 2006 by smiglass
quote:
Posted Fri 15 September 2006 05:53
Just to clarify re: the alleged fight between Teo and Miles prior to the Bitches Brew session ... Teo was Miles' producer, not manager. Further, some sources have Miles discounting the incident.
Finally, it doesn't really matter as far as the music itself ... in most cases a one-to-one correlation between specific incidents, moods, etc. and the nature of the music isn't a given. Music is very large, and contains almost everything. The idea that the music was tumultuous or sounded "angry" because of their argument is theoretical at best ... it's just as likely, possibly even more so, that the music was the balm. For instance, whenever I have to play or record when I'm ill, I often feel much better during the actual playing. Or I may be upset about something but it doesn't mean that I play upset ... music can often turn things around.
Fred
I agree! Often the interpretation of music by the musician may create an image in our minds that is far from the emotion of the performer. John Coltrane was often asked why he played in such an angry fashion to which he would reply that he was not angry but only trying to convey the musical ideas he had.
As for Bitches Brew, I bought my first copy when it was release in 1969, and I listened to it on many occasions and find it tedious. In short, I hate it. I loved In A Silent Way and expected more of the same but got something I could relate to only when under the influence! I think the Cellar Door Sessions is much more what Miles was shooting for, open creation and unstructured or minimal structure to the music. Sometime he succeeded and sometimes not. And, he was not the only one trying that during that era, i.e. Cecil McBee, Ornette Coleman, Anthony Braxton.
Anyway, I am glad that so many enjoy Bitches Brew because I have not!
Anthony
R
Posted on: 17 September 2006 by Pressure
Awesome LP but very out there and strictly hardcore. Completely different from In a Silent Way and Porgy and Bess, which I think are a lot better in the final analysis.
But the electronic, funky miles period is fantastic when his musicians locked into it. I recommend Bill Laswell's miles remix album to sample the best of this stuff (it has some IASW on there too). A sacriligeous suggestion to many serious Miles-heads, but Laswell does really know how to make Miles come into focus.
If only the Miles Davis / Jimi Hendrix collaboration had happened...
