To Fraim owners

Adolfo,

To the best of my knowledge, "guessing" is the only way you can tell if the cones are centered in their cups.

..maybe the next generation of Fraim,

Dave

Hi Adolfo

The answer is 'By feel'.

Locate the shelf and its uprights in the cups below and slide it side to side and back to front, until the spikes are centered; or at least not touching the side of the cups.

With a bit of practice, it's not difficult.

Good luck.

Hi J.N.,

Thanks, I tried it and it seems to work.
Did you notice that some levels have more "play" than others? Or am I doing something wrong?

Hi Adolfo,

Sorry I was somewhat less than helpful earlier. This is the one weakness (IMO)of the Fraim and no-one wants to address it (hopefully in future designs though). J.N.'s procedure is the one that I use and you will get the knack of it with practice.

quote:

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Did you notice that some levels have more "play" than others? Or am I doing something wrong?

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You are right on the money regarding the lack of "play" with some of the Fraim levels. Some of the levels have so little play it's virtually impossible to center the cone (ensuring it doesn't touch cup walls). This is just one of the problems that would be resolved if someone would address the cone/cupwall interface problem.

regards,

dave

If there is not enough play in the cups, I found it necessary sometimes to loosen the spikes using the supplied crowbar and retighten while holding the extruded alloy resonators in place and not necessarily completely flush with the edge of the MDF shelf. No need to overdo it, one mm or less makes a big difference. It is easier to make this adjustment if you do not overtighten the spikes since overtightening tends to exagerate any tendency of the threaded rods to pull to one side make the spikes less precisely perpendicular to the shelf which decreases the amount of play. Hope this makes sense.

Makes perfect sense Jeremy. I might give it ago on my one marginal shelf (in the interim I've loaded this problem shelf with a 250 which should keep it anchored;-)

thanks for the tip!

dave

I recently wrote up my Fraim setup procedures, in response to a query via e-mail.

Using this, all spikes sit very nicely in the cups of the level below. Once you get the tightness of nuts & spikes correct, the stack can be broken apart and re-built without having to re-assemble.

Once you've got this procedure nailed, it really does make a difference to the performance of the system.

cheers, Martin

quote:

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Warning: if the nuts and spikes are done up too gently, they will work loose over 2-3 weeks, and then it will sound really crap! When this has happened, you will find that the legs actually rattle when a level is lifted off it's base.

However, it is critical to the performance of Fraim that the nuts and spikes are not done up too tight - this will sap the life and vitality out of the sound. Getting this balance right is the critical element of the setup. The spanner that is provided is designed to be too wimpy to let you really over-tighten, but even this can apply too much pressure.

1) Starting with the base, Naim recommend that you screw the three rods into the three top-cups, and make sure they are as tightly in as you can get them by hand. If they do not make a tight-ish connection into the socket, try the other end of the rod, or gripping the rod with a cloth or similar to get more purchase. Once the rod is in place, make sure there is nothing on the thread (clean it if necessary, but there seems to be a slight oily film on the thread, which I make sure not to remove. You may need to wipe your hands at this point to avoid getting marks on the glass & wood).

2) Make sure the wood around the hole is clean on both sides of the board. Ditto for the bottom of the top-cup and the underside of the bottom washer (where they will mate with the wood). I just brush these with my hand to remove loose fluff, etc.

3) Insert the top-cup through the hole, place the big washer over the threaded rod, and put the first nut in place. Make sure the nut has it's flat side (the one without the letters/writing) towards the washer. Leave the nut undone by a turn or two.

4) With the board upside-down (rod pointing upwards), centre the top-cup in it's hole, front-and-back and left-and-right, so that it does not touch the sides of the hole in the wood. Hold the cup in place with a couple of fingers, whilst also adjusting the washer with your other hand so that it does not touch the sides of the rod. Now hold both cup and washer in place with one hand (if you knock either of them whilst doing this, start at the beginning of the paragraph again) and finger-tighten the nut with the other hand. This should just hold things in place, and the nut can now be tightened (gently, and then a little more) with the flat little spanner supplied. Hold the spanner with your thumb in the crook between the handle and the head, as this seems to stop the rod from moving as you tighten.

5) If you think you have over-tightened the nut and have to undo it, this will cause the bar to become unseated from the cup. Start again from point (1).

6) Obviously, repeat for the other two cups/rods/washers/nuts.

7) If assembling the base layer, thread on the other nut as far as it will go without tightening, making sure that the flat side (no letters/writing) is uppermost, then screw the big spike up as far as that will go without tightening. If the rod was seated properly, you should find that it stops *just* short of meeting the nut. Do the nut up finger tight (just enough to remove play from the spike, but not actually done up).

8) Set the base where you want to install it. Lift each spike in turn and make a 1-2 inch slit in the carpet where each of the spikes sits (all the way through the backing and underlay, too). Place a 4 inch strip of sticky tape over the slit. When the spike goes back down it will pierce the tape, and you can then repeatably re-install the Fraim in exactly the same position.


9) Now get the best spirit level you have, and make sure the base is scrupulously level. The spikes will need to be seated properly, which may involve you pushing them into the floor - they will do this of their own accord over the next couple of weeks, and this will probably upset your careful levelling. Once you have the thing level (with the spikes seated firmly), do each nut up finger tight. Use the little bar to hold the spike in position while you do this. Check again that it is still level.

10) Now lift up the base and turn it over. Do up the spike's nut (gently, as above), whilst holding the spike in position with the bar. Check that the other nut is still tight (it may have been dislodged whilst tightening the spike).

11) Put the base back down through the three holes in the sticky tape, apply some weight to ensure the spikes are well seated (a friend of mine stands on each corner in turn, but I think that's excessive!) and re-check that all is level. If it is not, when you undo the spike(s) it will almost certainly rotate the rod, so you will need to start that corner completely from scratch (do this anyway, even if it doesn't seem to have moved the rod). You're doing this job once, and then you want to forget it forever without wondering whether it could really be better.

12) After you've installed a level, check that the top-cup (that the next level will rest in) is clean.

13) Repeat the steps above for the mini-platform that goes on the base. Wipe all the mating surfaces to ensure they are free of dust etc. Seat the rod in the cup, put cup into hole, install washer & nut, centre the cup and washer, tighten nut (same as above), then screw on the spike and tighten it with the bar. Centre the bar, place thumb and forefinger on the two ends, and rotate until it's "nearly tight", i.e. any more would just start to be tight. Check that the bottom spikes are clean before you place this level on the base.

14) The spikes must be centred within the cups, so move the platform very gently backwards and forwards until you can feel where it is nicely centred and isn't touching the sides of any of the cups (this is quite obvious when you have it right).

15) If you're putting glass on this level (it doesn't sound as good as the other levels, so you might not), install the three metal "sockets" (the triangular ring things) with the rounded side upwards, and polish the ball bearings before you put them on the rings. Now, make sure that the rings are centred within their cut-outs (not touching the sides).

16) Place the glass gently on top of the BBs, centre it within the two front BBs, and ensure that the front of the glass is level with the front of the board. Make sure this doesn't cause the sockets & BBs to move. Now, tap the centre of the glass, then turn it over, re-position and repeat the tapping. If one side has a better ringing sound (higher pitched, longer ring, sweeter tone), leave the glass this way up. You may need to tap all around the glass in order to detect if one side is better than the other.

17) Now install the item on the glass. If necessary, positioning forward or slightly off-centre to stop leads from touching the back pillar of the next level up. If possible, though, centre the item between the BBs front-and-back, and side-to-side.

18) If you can, install the necessary cabling into the back of this box now, whilst holding the box such that the glass does not slide around. If the rings & BBs move, take the glass off & re-position them. This is even more fun with mains leads. It may be best to leave burndys until you are ready to plug both ends in at the same time, as otherwise this puts a lot of strain onto the connectors.

19) Once the box is setup, lift the box two feet at a time (one side, and then the other), to release any tension in the rubber feet caused by positioning the box on the glass.

20) The upper levels are obviously much the same to build as the base & platform. Wipe all the mating surfaces, seat the rod in the cup, place the cup in the hole, place the leg over the rod, put the spike onto the end of the rod, but only do it up by about one turn. Centre the cup, then position the leg so that the centre of the leg does not touch the sides of the cup. Tighten up the spike whilst holding the leg & cup. As always, don't do it too tight.

21) Check cups of level below are clean, check spikes on bottom of this level are clean, place this level on top of cups and position the spikes so they are centred in the cups whilst not disturbing the level below. Install sockets, BBs, glass, equipment, and repeat until you are knackered. Allow about 2 hours for a five-level stack.

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E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Martin

You have made no comment about the Fraim Glass Guards that help to keep the glass in situ over the balls and also the little plastic bumps that locate the feet of some of the newer kit in place.

Derek

<< >>

Thanks for these thorough instructions Martin! I know what I'll be doing next weekend;-)

regards,

dave

quote:

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Originally posted by Derek Wright:
Martin

You have made no comment about the Fraim Glass Guards that help to keep the glass in situ over the balls and also the little plastic bumps that locate the feet of some of the newer kit in place.

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Derek,

I bought both of my stacks of Fraim s/h, and I think I eneded up with one pair of rings across the whole nine levels.

You will tell from this that I haven't installed them on my kit. Maybe one day.

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Thanks - a disguised re emergence

Derek

<< >>

with a youngster Alex you need plenty of them!

Just wait for those sticky fingers as well ARRRGGGGHHHH

Regards

NB

Good thinking, it will save many arguments!

Regards


NB

Ps what about machine gun turrets lol

Archers works well, as does whiskey in their milk

Talking of neighbors I can't wait to see the look on our new neighbors faces when I carry the Neats in

quote:

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I recently wrote up my Fraim setup procedures, in response to a query via e-mail.

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Martin.

I timed myself when I put it together in no way as comprehensiveley as detailed by your good self (drat it, will have to start again when I find I am unhappy with the sound, in other words maybe never!)
It took a morning, including the unpacking of the parts.

So here comes the question. If you buy it new you could ask the dealer to install it and sit there and watch that he does it correctly. At current labor rates I reckon that's a minimum of 900 GB Pounds for a morning.
If you install it yourself as I did, should'nt you get a discount for the saved labor?? HA HA!!

That would make the fraim quite a reasonable price.

Maybe that's why my dealer handed me the boxes and assured me I would enjoy putting my Fraim togeteher and that it was quite theraputic!!

Actually I guess if you don't put it together yourself you will always sit there wondering if it really is done properly.

GEOFF

A trained dealer should take less than 10 minutes per shelf to assemble a Fraim, and 15 to 20 min for the base (it has to be leveled).
Naim asks dealers to install the equipment for free. But i rekon, it is quite fun to assemble. And most customers want to do it themselves.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Manu

I expect you realise my mail was toungue in cheek. I agree it is quite good fun to assemble it yourself.

regards
GEOFF

Is assembly of the fraim much more difficult than the lack? Than gave me some trouble.

Fraim Fastener Tightness:

God knows I've tried about every degree of tightness possible with my Fraims to determine which level of fastener torque sounds best and stays consistantly tight. I've torn them down as much as 5 times a in a week experimenting with tightness and in my rig (with two Fraim arrays on a concrete slab), the following level of tightness seems to sound best (as well as consistantly stay in adjustment).

All fasteners using nuts:

"Do the nuts up finger-tight, then tighten a quarter-turn more".--J.N.(?) "forum post, tip from Naim" (Realistically, you'll get about a tenth of a turn or so out your nuts before hitting a "stopping point"--any further and you've applied to much torque (sound quality suffers). Use only the supplied spanner gripped by two fingers and a thumb.

Cones:

"Centre the bar, place thumb and forefinger on the two ends, and rotate until it's "nearly tight", i.e. any more would just start to be tight." --Martin Payne, forum post "Fraim Setup Procedures".



Follow the rest of the advice in Martin's Fraim Setup Procedures and you'll be amazed at what this support can do for your music!

regards,

dave

On second thought....no comment

regards,

dave

AG - re the Fraim guards - even without rugrats I think it is useful to have them fitted as it minimises the chances of a ball bearing from rolling off the back of the stand into the morass of cables that are suspended nbetween the Fraim and the wall.

Derek

<< >>

Derek

Don't talk about lost balls please!

I have to admit I lost a ball-BEARING.Took me 2 days to find it.

geoff

I think we have all lost balls at sometime Geoff!

Regards

NB

But not when it comes to spending ridiculous sums of mony on Naim kit.
Then we just seem to go for it

GEOFF

Yeah I hate digging into my snake pit of cables in back of all my gear. I have the rings to keep the balls in place because I live in a shakey town and every decade we get a good earthquake so the rings make sense. and even if you just do some readjustment, trying to track a ball or three down would be a real pain in the ...

glenn

Life is analogue