How do Naim do it?
Posted by: hungryhalibut on 09 April 2005
At the end of last year I was using CDS3, 252, 250.2, SL2 and Fraim and was alsolutely delighted with it. THe trouble was I had visited Salisbury and heard the SL2s with the 552 and 500. Still, as both were so expensive, I put them out of my mind.
In January I bought a 300 on impulse. I know a 552 would have been better but it was too costly. So the 300 arrived and the improvement was (to me) well worth it. More involvement, better control etc etc. Although the SL2s are quite easy to drive, the 300 really gets a grip on them in a way that the 250.2 does not quite manage.
That was it for the next five years.....
But then, last week, a 552 appeared on eBay with a buy it now of £8,000, about 16 months old. So I figured I couuld sell my 252 and supercap for nearly £5,000, so the upgrade would cost just over £3,000. And the rest is history.
The 552 has been warming up for nearly two days. Is it £3,000 better? At new prices, is it worth £5,000 over the 252/supercap? Is/was the Pope a catholic?
It's hard to describe what the 552 does. It makes music in a way the 252 does not. Everything is so real, so involving. Guitars sound like guitars, not recordings of guitars. Every little detail is there; not in an intrusive way, but in a way that enhances your enjoyment.
I was overjoyed when I heard the 252 compared to my old 82 and thought - as one does - how can this get any better? But with the 552 it does, and by a huge margin.
Phil - the chap who has bought my supercap, asked me will I get a 500. I have heard it and don't think it's a big enough gain over the 300 to justify the cost - and it won't fit in my Fraim.
It will be very interesting when the CD555 appears, with the option of using its power supply to upgrade the CDS3. The same question will come up again - can the 555 really improve on the CDS3 - which is now only showing what it is cabable of with the 552 in place?
The answer has to be yes, or Naim wouldn't be developing it, but if it improves significantly on the CDS3, 552 and 300 it will take enjoyment of music to yet another new level. Eek.
Nigel
In January I bought a 300 on impulse. I know a 552 would have been better but it was too costly. So the 300 arrived and the improvement was (to me) well worth it. More involvement, better control etc etc. Although the SL2s are quite easy to drive, the 300 really gets a grip on them in a way that the 250.2 does not quite manage.
That was it for the next five years.....
But then, last week, a 552 appeared on eBay with a buy it now of £8,000, about 16 months old. So I figured I couuld sell my 252 and supercap for nearly £5,000, so the upgrade would cost just over £3,000. And the rest is history.
The 552 has been warming up for nearly two days. Is it £3,000 better? At new prices, is it worth £5,000 over the 252/supercap? Is/was the Pope a catholic?
It's hard to describe what the 552 does. It makes music in a way the 252 does not. Everything is so real, so involving. Guitars sound like guitars, not recordings of guitars. Every little detail is there; not in an intrusive way, but in a way that enhances your enjoyment.
I was overjoyed when I heard the 252 compared to my old 82 and thought - as one does - how can this get any better? But with the 552 it does, and by a huge margin.
Phil - the chap who has bought my supercap, asked me will I get a 500. I have heard it and don't think it's a big enough gain over the 300 to justify the cost - and it won't fit in my Fraim.
It will be very interesting when the CD555 appears, with the option of using its power supply to upgrade the CDS3. The same question will come up again - can the 555 really improve on the CDS3 - which is now only showing what it is cabable of with the 552 in place?
The answer has to be yes, or Naim wouldn't be developing it, but if it improves significantly on the CDS3, 552 and 300 it will take enjoyment of music to yet another new level. Eek.
Nigel
Hello banana 
You are all bananas if you ask me
quote:Originally posted by Polarbear:
What you need Adam is a 300
Yup - but later, later. What I really need is some time to build my XPS2.
Heheh,
Not wanting to rain on the seeming 'toys for rich boys' parade... BUT...
Some of the best music I enjoy listening to is on my 'second' system.
Actually, it's not so much a system, as my mono Proton Clock radio, with it's 5" full range speaker - a Tivoli 'killer' in sound quality - and for some reason very rewarding musically. Why? - well it basically has a very nice 'tone' so the sound itself is very pleasing to listen to, and it has good dynamics, and plentiful detail. Air and space doesn't come into it, as it's mono, however one can hear space around instruments and a sense of the acoustic of the recording venue.
All this whilst lying/relaxing in bed.
My Naim 2 channel system is light years away in terms of PRaT, detail, sound-staging and imaging etc, and ultimately musical involvement, but on a musical performance for $$ basis the Proton wins.
So just what does it take to achieve the 'holy grail' of recorded music in the home? Endless upgrades? - for sure if you constantly analyse your system and do A-B comparisons with the latest piece of kit, or the next rung up the ladder in the case of Naim, you're bound to hear differences/tradeoffs, and (in the case of Naim) usually a better and more involving reproduced performance.
But where does it end? If you always analyse and obsess about ones system, I doubt one will ever be truly happy with it - even with a CDS3/552/multiple_active 500/DBL's setup - perhaps five, or better yet, lets make it 7 of them, for a multi-channel setup for doing music and movies. Oh, and multiple subs for each channel as well. Would you be happy then?
Personally, IMHO nothing succeeds like excess, so if you can afford it, or win the lottery, go for it - heheh, I'm pretty sure I would.
But if you ask, is it worth working two jobs, and every weekend for the next two or more years to afford it, then I would think for most the answer would be no.
When we step back from analysing and tweaking our systems, and listen to the music, THATS when the value of our investment starts to make sense and true satisfaction with one's system begins.
Further, surely the advantage of Naim is that it is in truth a tailored system, with most of the endless variables sorted for you, as compared to the more traditional audiophile approach of mixing and matching (often endlessly as well)
I doubt that I'm easily satisfied, in fact not at all, but whilst my Naim system is not top league, but more mid-level(ish) its very well balanced, and supremely musical. It has plenty of 'faults' or compromises, as all kit does, but I don't 'obsess' about it, rather it plays the music that I, as a musician, love and enjoy.
Perhaps that's part of the difficulty I have with all this endless upgrading thing; I approach things as a musician, and only partly as a hobbie - therefore my appreciation is of the music more than the equipment it plays upon. Which is not to say I don't obsess over the kit from time to time, but mostly I just enjoy the music, AND the big plus with Naim for me, is it's pretty much the only kit I've had that DOESNT make we want to contemplate ongoing upgrades; it's so satisfying musically as it is.
Of course, we all have different ideas/needs/wants etc, especially in this 'hobbie' to have the 'best'
An acquaintence of mine is something of an Audiophile 'golden ear' type, with Audio Research amps, Pro-AC speakers etc. Recently, I persuaded him to go to my Naim dealer to have a listen to a CDS3/552/250.2/Allaes combo, all on Fraim. Not only did he NOT like it at all, his words were, to quote: "It sounds like $2000.00 worth of Sony shit"
And I quote. So when you or I have reached the 'best' let us not forget that it can be a bit like the emporers new clothes if you or I persue it out of some notion of prestige, or need to always have the 'top of the range', because as sure as God made little Apples, there will be someone out there who thinks it's rubbish.
So, if the top level gear (Naim) is what it takes to float your boat as regards musical involvement, and you can either afford it, or see sense/reward in striving for it, then I applaud as I do regard it as being muscially amongst the very best, if not THE best (whatever that is). However, one can easily find musical satisfaction with Naim at any level, provided one listens to the music more than the kit; after all we have many very satisfied owners on the forum with 5 series equipment.
So, just some reflection and thoughts from me, and as always, only my humble opinion, open to change and further enlightenment.
Best Regards
John...
Not wanting to rain on the seeming 'toys for rich boys' parade... BUT...
Some of the best music I enjoy listening to is on my 'second' system.
Actually, it's not so much a system, as my mono Proton Clock radio, with it's 5" full range speaker - a Tivoli 'killer' in sound quality - and for some reason very rewarding musically. Why? - well it basically has a very nice 'tone' so the sound itself is very pleasing to listen to, and it has good dynamics, and plentiful detail. Air and space doesn't come into it, as it's mono, however one can hear space around instruments and a sense of the acoustic of the recording venue.
All this whilst lying/relaxing in bed.
My Naim 2 channel system is light years away in terms of PRaT, detail, sound-staging and imaging etc, and ultimately musical involvement, but on a musical performance for $$ basis the Proton wins.
So just what does it take to achieve the 'holy grail' of recorded music in the home? Endless upgrades? - for sure if you constantly analyse your system and do A-B comparisons with the latest piece of kit, or the next rung up the ladder in the case of Naim, you're bound to hear differences/tradeoffs, and (in the case of Naim) usually a better and more involving reproduced performance.
But where does it end? If you always analyse and obsess about ones system, I doubt one will ever be truly happy with it - even with a CDS3/552/multiple_active 500/DBL's setup - perhaps five, or better yet, lets make it 7 of them, for a multi-channel setup for doing music and movies. Oh, and multiple subs for each channel as well. Would you be happy then?
Personally, IMHO nothing succeeds like excess, so if you can afford it, or win the lottery, go for it - heheh, I'm pretty sure I would.
But if you ask, is it worth working two jobs, and every weekend for the next two or more years to afford it, then I would think for most the answer would be no.
When we step back from analysing and tweaking our systems, and listen to the music, THATS when the value of our investment starts to make sense and true satisfaction with one's system begins.
Further, surely the advantage of Naim is that it is in truth a tailored system, with most of the endless variables sorted for you, as compared to the more traditional audiophile approach of mixing and matching (often endlessly as well)
I doubt that I'm easily satisfied, in fact not at all, but whilst my Naim system is not top league, but more mid-level(ish) its very well balanced, and supremely musical. It has plenty of 'faults' or compromises, as all kit does, but I don't 'obsess' about it, rather it plays the music that I, as a musician, love and enjoy.
Perhaps that's part of the difficulty I have with all this endless upgrading thing; I approach things as a musician, and only partly as a hobbie - therefore my appreciation is of the music more than the equipment it plays upon. Which is not to say I don't obsess over the kit from time to time, but mostly I just enjoy the music, AND the big plus with Naim for me, is it's pretty much the only kit I've had that DOESNT make we want to contemplate ongoing upgrades; it's so satisfying musically as it is.
Of course, we all have different ideas/needs/wants etc, especially in this 'hobbie' to have the 'best'
An acquaintence of mine is something of an Audiophile 'golden ear' type, with Audio Research amps, Pro-AC speakers etc. Recently, I persuaded him to go to my Naim dealer to have a listen to a CDS3/552/250.2/Allaes combo, all on Fraim. Not only did he NOT like it at all, his words were, to quote: "It sounds like $2000.00 worth of Sony shit"
And I quote. So when you or I have reached the 'best' let us not forget that it can be a bit like the emporers new clothes if you or I persue it out of some notion of prestige, or need to always have the 'top of the range', because as sure as God made little Apples, there will be someone out there who thinks it's rubbish.
So, if the top level gear (Naim) is what it takes to float your boat as regards musical involvement, and you can either afford it, or see sense/reward in striving for it, then I applaud as I do regard it as being muscially amongst the very best, if not THE best (whatever that is). However, one can easily find musical satisfaction with Naim at any level, provided one listens to the music more than the kit; after all we have many very satisfied owners on the forum with 5 series equipment.
So, just some reflection and thoughts from me, and as always, only my humble opinion, open to change and further enlightenment.
Best Regards
John...
quote:Some of the best music I enjoy listening to is on my 'second' system.
Actually, it's not so much a system, as my mono Proton Clock radio, with it's 5" full range speaker - a Tivoli 'killer' in sound quality - and for some reason very rewarding musically. Why? - well it basically has a very nice 'tone' so the sound itself is very pleasing to listen to, and it has good dynamics, and plentiful detail. Air and space doesn't come into it, as it's mono, however one can hear space around instruments and a sense of the acoustic of the recording venue.
All this whilst lying/relaxing in bed.
My Naim 2 channel system is light years away in terms of PRaT, detail, sound-staging and imaging etc, and ultimately musical involvement, but on a musical performance for $$ basis the Proton wins.
So just what does it take to achieve the 'holy grail' of recorded music in the home? Endless upgrades? - for sure if you constantly analyse your system and do A-B comparisons with the latest piece of kit, or the next rung up the ladder in the case of Naim, you're bound to hear differences/tradeoffs, and (in the case of Naim) usually a better and more involving reproduced performance.
But where does it end? If you always analyse and obsess about ones system, I doubt one will ever be truly happy with it - even with a CDS3/552/multiple_active 500/DBL's setup - perhaps five, or better yet, lets make it 7 of them, for a multi-channel setup for doing music and movies. Oh, and multiple subs for each channel as well. Would you be happy then?
Personally, IMHO nothing succeeds like excess, so if you can afford it, or win the lottery, go for it - heheh, I'm pretty sure I would.
But if you ask, is it worth working two jobs, and every weekend for the next two or more years to afford it, then I would think for most the answer would be no.
When we step back from analysing and tweaking our systems, and listen to the music, THATS when the value of our investment starts to make sense and true satisfaction with one's system begins.
Further, surely the advantage of Naim is that it is in truth a tailored system, with most of the endless variables sorted for you, as compared to the more traditional audiophile approach of mixing and matching (often endlessly as well)
I doubt that I'm easily satisfied, in fact not at all, but whilst my Naim system is not top league, but more mid-level(ish) its very well balanced, and supremely musical. It has plenty of 'faults' or compromises, as all kit does, but I don't 'obsess' about it, rather it plays the music that I, as a musician, love and enjoy.
Perhaps that's part of the difficulty I have with all this endless upgrading thing; I approach things as a musician, and only partly as a hobbie - therefore my appreciation is of the music more than the equipment it plays upon. Which is not to say I don't obsess over the kit from time to time, but mostly I just enjoy the music, AND the big plus with Naim for me, is it's pretty much the only kit I've had that DOESNT make we want to contemplate ongoing upgrades; it's so satisfying musically as it is.
Of course, we all have different ideas/needs/wants etc, especially in this 'hobbie' to have the 'best'
An acquaintence of mine is something of an Audiophile 'golden ear' type, with Audio Research amps, Pro-AC speakers etc. Recently, I persuaded him to go to my Naim dealer to have a listen to a CDS3/552/250.2/Allaes combo, all on Fraim. Not only did he NOT like it at all, his words were, to quote: "It sounds like $2000.00 worth of Sony shit"
And I quote. So when you or I have reached the 'best' let us not forget that it can be a bit like the emporers new clothes if you or I persue it out of some notion of prestige, or need to always have the 'top of the range', because as sure as God made little Apples, there will be someone out there who thinks it's rubbish.
So, if the top level gear (Naim) is what it takes to float your boat as regards musical involvement, and you can either afford it, or see sense/reward in striving for it, then I applaud as I do regard it as being muscially amongst the very best, if not THE best (whatever that is). However, one can easily find musical satisfaction with Naim at any level, provided one listens to the music more than the kit; after all we have many very satisfied owners on the forum with 5 series equipment.
So, just some reflection and thoughts from me, and as always, only my humble opinion, open to change and further enlightenment.
Best Regards
John...
Excellent post, and food for thought and digestion.
I still aspire to a 552/500/CDS3/DBLs - they're my new toys-to-be... even in light of the stonking 5 series for musical satisfaction.
Was music ever in the mix?
Enjoy the music a little more with a Naim.
Philip
quote:An acquaintence of mine is something of an Audiophile 'golden ear' type
Perhaps those golden ears are in need of syringing.....
Nigel
quote:Originally posted by Johns Naim: Not wanting to rain on the seeming 'toys for rich boys' parade... BUT...
Great post John! Thanks you for your excellent and sensible comment.
Regards, Edouard
quote:it was jaw-droppingly good.
So it should be