82 vs adding Hicap to 72

Great question. My experience does not *exactly* answer your question but I can share a quick story.

When the 82 first came out and also the 180 I once compare an 82/180 to a 72/hicap/250 and the 82/180 won, hands down. Based on this I'd be inclined to get the 82. It's a very fine preamp.

Markus

I see from your profile that you list an LP12/Ittok and an Arcam Alpha 5. How much do you listen to the CDP? What cartrdige and PSU do you have on the LP12?

I'm hypothesizing you don't listen to CDs much and you do listen to a lot of LPs using a Valhalla PS. Based on these hypotheses, I think your best bet is

1) first get a hicap; if you buy an 8-10 year old one, get it serviced.

2) next get an ARO or Ekos. If you prefer the Ekos to the ARO, perhaps a Lingo would be your best 2nd step.

An LP12/superarm/72/hi/140 will outperform by far an LP12/Ittok/82/140.


A hicap + Lingo should leave you extra money that can be put into a cartridge or more music.

If you listen to a lot of CDs, or want to, buy a hicap and upgrade your CD player before getting an 82.

You should be able to get some dems to validate which is the better route for you.

Phil

haddock

if you've got the cash, go for the 82. it will comfortably out perform the 72 / Hicap. you'll find the music far more clear, with the notes more clearly defined, quiter background, and tighter bass.

however, for about £300 - £400 (depending on the vintage) you should be able to pick up a 2nd hand hicap to add to your 72, which will make a large sound improvement, although not in the same league as the 82 upgrade.

the 82 will run off of your 140 in the same way that your 72 currently does, but you can also upgrade it by adding 1 or 2 hicaps, or a supercap, so there's a big room for improvement.

let us know what you decide...

cheers

matt

When I decided to upgrade my 32.5, I compared 72/HiCap with 102 (no HiCap, no NAPSC), and chose the 102. Consequently, I'd be amazed if anyone thought that adding a HiCap was a better choice (either on performance or "value for money") than upgrading to an 82.

JD

Haddock

If Phil Barry's assumptions are correct I'd be inclined to agree with him.

It's a good question though. I know that I much preferred a 42.5/Hicap/140 to a 72/140, but that doesn't really help.

I'm tempted to swap my "bits" around to see if I can express a more coherent view.

Chris

quote:

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Originally posted by Phil Barry:
I see from your profile that you list an LP12/Ittok and an Arcam Alpha 5. How much do you listen to the CDP? What cartrdige and PSU do you have on the LP12?


I'm hypothesizing you don't listen to CDs much and you do listen to a lot of LPs using a Valhalla PS. Based on these hypotheses, I think your best bet is

1) first get a hicap; if you buy an 8-10 year old one, get it serviced.

2) next get an ARO or Ekos. If you prefer the Ekos to the ARO, perhaps a Lingo would be your best 2nd step.

An LP12/superarm/72/hi/140 will outperform by far an LP12/Ittok/82/140.


A hicap + Lingo should leave you extra money that can be put into a cartridge or more music.

If you listen to a lot of CDs, or want to, buy a hicap and upgrade your CD player before getting an 82.

You should be able to get some dems to validate which is the better route for you.

Phil

---

I've an old LP12, pre Valhalla that I bought 2nd hand in about 1985 - it still sounds lovely though. My listening is pretty much split between cd and vinyl.

I borrowed a CDX recently to see if this was the path I wanted to go down but I'm afraid that I really couldn't detect a £2K difference between to my Arcam (heresy I know). Either way it was not even close to being as good as my LP12. On top of this I'm wondering if it is woth waiting a little while longer for the digital formats to settle down before I get my check book out.

So.....this has got me thinking about a new pre or power supply.

The choices still remain buy a Hicap plus a load of music, or the 82......


Nic

The 72/140 on its own is a capable pairing but adding the HiCap really does lift things enormously.

Assuming that you have nothing against the basic combo (i.e. the only motivation for the question is that you know the 82 is available at the price), you'll be astounded at the difference the Hi makes. If you get one second hand, it's worth getting it serviced if it's an old'un for around £100.

Then spend the remaining £1k or so on great tunes.

Regards,
Ed.

Richard Bowles: So you're suggesting that an 82 with no hicap gives FIVE TIMES better sound than putting a hicap on a 72...? There's an expression for that, and its LMAO some people can't see the wood for the trees...

You disagree. Fine, but please be polite next time.

Unfortunately, the idea of one component being n times better than another is utterly meaningless to me, so I can't answer your question.

JD

Haddock,

Since the CDX didn't sound 2K better that the Arcam, I think one or both of two phenomena are occurring.

1) Your taste is too good. Personally, I'm not all that enamored of the bare CDX, either. In that case, consider a used CDS1. Now that's a CD player at only an obnoxious price (as opposed to a really frightening price a la CDX/XPS or CDS2). It may cost more than a used 82, but it's great - and it will come very, very close to the LP12.

and/or

2) The front end can't display the differences between the 2 players. This takes us (I mean, you have invited us to help spend your money, haven't you?) back to the hicap as a first step.

The hicap is like a major preamp upgrade. You may not understand this until you hear the effect for yourself (better frequency extremes, better musical coherence, less congestion, the hicap is a marvelous invention), but the effect is there. We pay through the nose for it, but it's great value for money.

Phil

quote:

---

Originally posted by Phil Barry:
Haddock,

Since the CDX didn't sound 2K better that the Arcam, I think one or both of two phenomena are occurring.

1) Your taste is too good. Personally, I'm not all that enamored of the bare CDX, either. In that case, consider a used CDS1. Now that's a CD player at only an obnoxious price (as opposed to a really frightening price a la CDX/XPS or CDS2). It may cost more than a used 82, but it's great - and it will come very, very close to the LP12.

and/or

2) The front end can't display the differences between the 2 players. This takes us (I mean, you have invited us to help spend your money, haven't you?) back to the hicap as a first step.

The hicap is like a major preamp upgrade. You may not understand this until you hear the effect for yourself (better frequency extremes, better musical coherence, less congestion, the hicap is a marvelous invention), but the effect is there. We pay through the nose for it, but it's great value for money.

Phil

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So, summarizing everyones comments (thanks) it looks like the consensus is that the 82 should be better than the 72 with Hicap - though the Hicap will give me the best bang for my buck.

Neither option is going to paint me into a corner in terms of future upgrades.

The only outstanding questions that I have to ponder are:-

will an 82 work well with a 140

and/or

will a Hicap'd 72 be good enough to get the most out of CD upgrades in the future (like Phil I believe it might be).

On the subject of the CDX the power supply for it does make a big difference but at ~£5k for the 2 it still doesn't sound as good as my old LP12. Why are these things so expensive

Nick,
There's one of each of these currently on E-Bay. You could always stick a bid in on both and let fate decide your future

David

Both options make sense.

The hicap improves the sound of the 72 and will highlight the differences between a CDX and Arcam 5.

I was using a 72/hicap/140 when I changed my Arcam 6 for a CD2 and the difference was immediately noticable.

However the 82 is in a different league again.

I would be inclined to suggest the 82 if you can afford it, however the hicap would be a good choice also.

Either way you can't lose as both are good upgrades.

Thanks for your contributions everyone. The 82 has it - I'll let you know how I get on.

PS Will it ever stop raining in Edinburgh. If any of you are coming up for the festival bring some good waterproofs!